nope, i also got 250 from UB yesterday through Click2Pay..

That is good news, maybe we will get our money aferall.

but those 250$ are ur first payment or ur second?

So you're essentially asking that everyone go and make the terrible financial decision (particularly now) of putting money on UB, just to cover for the huge mistake you yourself made in putting not some of your money, but ALL of your money on UB? GTFO you're getting exactly what you deserve for putting EVERYTHING at risk with that company.

UB/AP is not declaring bankruptcy based on the information currently available. The company jettisoned one large bondholding group last year for UB software/customer lists, jettisoned a second larger bondholding group this year, reduced staff to skeleton levels and have several if not all company accounts frozen by the Department of Justice.

The second bondholder (Madeira) is facing liquidation/bankruptcy because UB/AP told them there would be no more payments. Bondholder members have looked into UB/AP financials with concern because of specious expense items suggesting principals earned money using questionable methods. Madeira has no assets and apparently no funds/taste to finance a complicated international legal fight for any UB/AP assets. UB/AP has not made public any financials.

The company structure is hella-complicated, but the beard/shell/face is based in Antigua. Actual controlling corporate entities may reside in the Antigua, BVI, Panama, Belize, Malta or others.

IDS, the customer service arm based in Costa Rica, terminated some 300+ employees. In CR, companies are required to keep ~21 days x each yr worked as severance reserves. Rough math works out to approx 2.5M and the Rimola email is saying 2.75M. The termination notice says liquidation reserves have been provided to Rimola, the emails suggest there is/was a hiccup in the deposits. The emails also suggest some payroll is also involved though this number would be much smaller and likely account for the difference above. More important is whether Rimola follows through on his threat to release company info if reserves are not provided. More than one contact has suggested Rimola is not to be trusted over other owner/founders as to the whereabouts of funds.

The St Pete article stated a 2nd server farm was built in Panama in 2006/07 in case UIGEA involved losing the Kahnawake assets, unless this array has been mirrored with hardware/software updates over the years, it would probably not be able to take over the sites and would not be helpful from an unlicensed jurisdiction far away from large North American Internet backbone traffic. There is nothing at present to suggest the site will not continue to operate from the Kahnawake reserve.

The termination memo mentioned some employees would be rehired for a new, smaller company which apparently has begun.

Pokerscout continues to show over 500 average cash game players or roughly 1/4 of previous traffic. Depending on the time of day, these players seem to be at least 50/50 American. If the company finds processing options, 2p2 threads show clearly some players would probably continue to support the site going forward.

Events of the last several days have likely brought player deposit totals down, player buyouts, continued rake, degen/playmoney casino binges, etc.

Affiliates have reported missed payments from UB/AP and have suspended rakeback payouts. UB/AP says payments will resume shortly.

MSNBC, Pokernews and others are misreporting the story as an UB/AP bankruptcy.

The DoJ has seized both operational and processing accounts from UB/AP and appear to have gained control of at least some player funds though as has been noted they have denied this.

UB/AP has not made a deal w/DoJ like FT/PS for domain access and the ability to pay from remaining open accounts because they are heavily dependent on US customers.

I think putting money on the site isn't that great. However playing with the money you have on site, perhaps after finishing your regular session could convince Cereus and any potential investors they are trying to attract that the business is still viable and thus should be salvaged.

ElevenGrover, your post is quite interesting. They could be trying to screw all their existing investors and reemerge as a smaller company. They also they have one of the best poker softwares on the market (yeah commence superuser jokes) which can probably be sold to another operator.

Lol, nothing is salvageable. The brand is worthless. The only reason there are still people is playing is because they cant get their money out, not because they still believe in Cereus.
The moment Cereus allows players to withdraw their money, 75% will withdraw their entire bankroll.

I'm asking players that HAVE MONEY on UB to play, not people that DON'T have money there. Yes, it was a stupid decision to play at UB, but you don't have to rub in in. If you have lived in a F****** peice shi** semi communist country like Norway, where poker is illegal, casinos is illegal, internet poker is taxed by 30% of your winnings , and all your friends played at UB, I guess there is a chance that you would play there too. The stupid decision was ofcourse keeping all my money there, but I had to, to play at high enough stakes, so I could get a 60% rakeback deal on another site.

Visa.

I wouldn't troll on an issue such as this, because I know how badly some poor sods have been affected by it.

It is generally considered best practice in the online gaming industry to hold customer funds in a ring-fenced client account, in which case customer funds would not be classed as 'unsecured creditors' (as in case with Battlefield Poker) and at the bottom of the list. For example, as done by PKR:

So, we may be fortunate that AP/UB has followed this practice, however, based on their prior corporate behaviour this seems optimistic.

I actually stumbled across this thread which looked at which sites held customer money in trusts / which didn't. Can't see any reference to UB / AP though...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-trust-151886/

Questions I have about UB/AP:

1.How much money was seized by the DOJ?
2.How much money was in US player accounts (according to their cashier screens)
3.How much money remains in Non-US players accounts (according to thier cashier screens)
4.If players do have to go after funds, will the PPA or any other organization purporting to represent poker players be assisting in setting up a creditor class/initiating actions against individuals if necessary etc, or are all the players going to be on their own? I suspect that this is a good case for an enterprising law firm.

The threat of going to the FBI if employees are not paid... what information could this be? Just 100% compliance with investigation or other hidden details?

Some friends, eh?

Anyway, you're not alone in this mess. I hope you and everyone else gets their money.

Does not look very good, I am just very happy I stayed with PS... and some €uro sites.

Well i had all my money on AP.. Got 500$ in 24 hours after the 250$ rule, 250$ through Click2Pay and 250$ through Moneybookers. Than i transferred money to my UB account and finally got my first 250$ through Click2Pay yesterday.

So technically, my first payment.

Olman Rimola was used heavily to configure parts of the operation. His name appears as a director on Malta and Panama corporations related to the company and he is the head of IDS. He has been around since the scandals and probably had access to some company records related to the scandals. He probably has knowledge of at least some of the relationships with the original founders and names of some of their other business interests.

[QUOTE=eazy489;26429563]Alright for all of you panickers out there, im'a dissect this thing for you.


UB/AP has stated that they are in discussions with the US Attorney to attempt to get US players their money back. Not everything has been as bad as it seems.

>>>>> So if the US players get their money back the NON US players are just ****ed right? Maybe its better to send money to a US player then..,.?

Not sure if this has been posted but hell of an article on AP/UB story!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...cle1166818.ece

I recall one site licensed out of Malta made the assertion that it was a condition of license to keep player funds segregated and that they are regularly audited. So I assume a good licensing group makes and enforces these type of policy's.

I decided to contact the KGC to discuss their policy regarding player funds. To my surprise they not only admitted that they don't require such segregation but they asserted that segregating player funds is not practical at all.

That said they did state that player protection is their number one role and that they were currently arranging meetings with Leggett and lawyers to discuss the matter. They have a heavily invested position to desire that Cereus remains in business, after all the Cereus server farms (MIT) are located on their sovereign land and no doubt they receive some fairly high royalties in return for the legal protection they offer and the extremely reliable North American internet availability they provide.

I believe the KGC interests are aligned well with the players and they have some negotiating power with Cereus.

I'm so glad I cashed out after my last mtt score. Their client sux elephant balls and the 1 second unclick makes me so mad I start tilting. Good ridance super users, I'll take my monopoly money elsewhere. From the bright side, dollars are only worth about 50% of what they were when I started playing so people are getting a pretty nice rebate on their loss if it comes to that...

Why can't we all just play with gold it's more fun I promise!

Here is the section dealing w/player deposits in the current KGC regs. There are other provisions for deposit requirements in case of KGC decisions.

PART XXI: PLAYER PROTECTION
188. An Authorized Client Provider must ensure that:
(a) the Authorized Client Provider's liability for player balances is separately identifiable at all times; and
(b) player balances and prizes, bonuses and guaranteed amounts are covered by liquid funds at all times and that upon request the Commission is provided proof of same.

To tweak your last sentence, I believe the KGC interests are being forced into alignment with players. Seems pretty clear the KGC worked against players in favor of Norton/UB/AP/Continent8/MIT's interest in the past. Maybe not in acts of commission, but definitely acts of omission.

Everyone should make sure they read this. Excellent summary Eleven, I was worried I read the situation wrong yesterday after the MSNBC article. Thanks for the clarity

Great summary, EG.

One slight correction is that the entities you refer to as bondholders are not bondholders. They are noteholders. There is a difference between a bond and a promissory note. What Madeira Fjord and aspacxe hold are promissory notes, not bonds.

I'll skip the technical description of the difference between bonds and promissory notes. This difference has no material effect on players' funds.

Keep digging, man. You are doing great work.

Agreed. Also the deal with Excapsa/Aspacxe has now closed and the debt interest (the notes) is now owned by Blanca. I guess there is probably a formal process to actually cancel the notes.

My payout screen opened up today and I was able to ask for a cashout of $500 USD. Processing. Not sure what that means but seems good....

THANK YOU ELEVEN GROVER FOR POSTING SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE.