Actually LOL_Colij is not the only one who got that 250 $ cashout on Friday so this random speculation that AP/UB is done is useless. If you have any fact thats fine, bring it forward otherwise these sort of comments are not needed imo.

This.

+1

How does filing a lawsuit against AP get you your money?

Are you going to go down to Costa Rica? KGC? If you sue them in the U.S. any judgment is useless, besides they are all but bankrupt. Even if you prevail in Costa Rica or wherever their latest sham shell company is located, which sounds like a complete nightmare to pursue, you are suing a company that is broke and has little future revenue to lien against. Even if they had the money finding the people to pay the judgment would be next to impossible.

Are you thinking if you get a judgment against Cereus then the DOJ will give you some of the seized funds? Without a law being passed forcing the DOJ to disburse this money it isn't going anywhere. The DOJ has never given money back when it has been seized in similar situations. Why would it happen here? These seizures were all about the money grab and the government is not going to just hand that over and no court will make them, their seizure is unrelated to your claim.

How do you serve people for a lawsuit when they are in hiding? Do you even know what shell to file suit against? Is the lawyer doing this for free or at least a contingency? If not, then you are throwing good money after bad.

Also if people start chasing them in Costa Rica then you run the risk of the whole operation shutting down and them skipping with what little cash is left. Then everyone gets screwed. The only real hope here is that they can keep making money and dig themselves out of it or find someone that will buy their poker room for enough money to pay everyone, then you still have to compete with the govt and have to hope that people that have shown they will steal from anyone actually do the right thing.

The company is broke and the government is not going to be giving the money back. Why waste more time and money on this? Four months have passed and no money has magically appeared, it will be the same in four more months. You played on a shady site that you knew was shady and got screwed. Learn the lesson, put it behind you, and get on with your life. You might not want to hear it but it is time to get the whole situation out of your head and move on.

Just think about how much worse you will feel if you go to all this trouble, win your lawsuit and still do not get paid. What if you don't win?

Actually, I am thinking of contacting a law firm in London as I live here. Yes, it has been 4 months now since BF and although I personally have received more than $5k from UB/AP since then there hasn't been any significant progress. Obviously I have never been in a situation like this so I have no idea what to do, how to start etc. thats why I am gonna seek advice and then go from there. But one thing I know for sure is that I have way too much money locked up there so I am not gonna just let it go and I don't care whoever says what.

Bytheway, has any1 noticed that the security certificate on UB expired with yesterday's date?

this is the truth trying to sue ap/ub is only going to make the situation worse. theres no chance we get our money back by taking this route and if we did manage to get something it would be >5 cents on the dollar. giving them time to rebuild is our only real option and everybody should play as much as they can

yes! everyone keep playing! come on euros generate that rake! Hopefully american players will have access by the end of the year ahhhh Im optimist

If no one sues the owners of UB, what is there to stop them simply letting UB eventually die, then re-setting up as a different company rebranding the software and starting again?

Obviously suing them is problematic, but if you do sue the owners and get a judgement in your favour, perhaps you could lay claim to any future profits.

Having said that the let it go and move on option is easy to say if you dont have money on there, but might be the best advice...

Why can't they just set up a new company anyway, regardless of whether they have judgments against them or not? This is not a company that has been known to adhere to their legal and fiscal responsibilities. Look what they did to Madeira Fjord, they went into default and never looked back.

If you manage to locate them, their company name, serve them, sue them and prevail you are only halfway there. You then have to collect on the judgment. If AP/UB get hit with judgments they are almost certainly going to ignore them or go legally bankrupt and never pay them.

This is what I don't get by people trying to chase them in court. You cannot really serve them in the U.S. and it is possible U.S. law does not really apply. Are you going to sue them in Costa Rica, Panama, Antigua, KGC or wherever they are hiding and registered nowadays? Good luck with that. Even if you are able to sue them here and win then you get to wait in line behind the U.S. government.

If you actually jump through all of these hoops you will probably win but that does not get you the money. In fact, it might even make the situation worse.

I'm not trying to be the negative here, just trying to show the flawed logic in trying to chase this company down. Suing borderline bankrupt businesses never turn out well. The international and legal issues make this an even more complex situation. I would imagine their T&C's say where you have to sue them. I'll see if I can find that.

How long did this take to get to you from the time you requested it?

http://www.absolutepoker.eu/support/...and-conditions

It looks like you get to go to KGC assuming these were the terms when you agreed to them. I doubt they have changed much over the years and if it did you probably had to agree to the new terms. You could argue that these terms don't apply here but you likely agreed to them at some point. The argument would have to be whether this applies when they breach the contract by not paying and if you can take that action in other jurisdictions. I'm sure the lawyers know if this would stand up in court but you entered into a contract with them and agreed to take action only in their jurisdiction.

Just out of curiousity, do you have any $$ on cereus? It looks like from your post that you don't. So why are you even on this thread? Just wondering, why you would spend your time reading this thread, if you have no $$ on Cereus. Let the ppl who have $$ on there worry about it. People with 5 and 6 figures aren't going to just give up on it. That is what you are saying to do.

FYI, the Todd terry & Co. case against FTP is gaining some headway. AP/UB was making over a million dollars a day in their prime, and that is documented online. I personally spoke with a woman from the US attorneys office within the past few weeks and she told me they believe that AP has bank accounts overseas that have not been restrained or seized by the DoJ. What more do you need than that?

If we don't win, well at least we tried. At least we gave AP something else to worry about. Their lawyers will have to work extra hours which means extra expenses for AP/UB. I don't know about you, but every Cereus player I've talked to is willing to do whatever it takes at a shot of getting their $$ back.

I have money on UB and agree 100% with what he said except the part where I was stupid to play on UB. Never depositing and pulling out several $100k makes me glad I played there regardless of this mess.
He is telling you the cold hard reality of the situation which you obviously dont want to hear for some reason.

bankrupt shiiittt just got 200 from them yest!

Nope, didn't play on Cereus after they cheated me and thousands more out of money. I just read the thread for the first time in a while and was shocked U.S. players were considering suing them. I posted my questions because I am curious how people that want to take this to court will go about it as it is so complex. It is a complete waste of time that only hurts your situation. You will be better off mentally if you dismiss it and move on with your life while learning a life lesson of what happens when you do business with known crooks. Obsessing over this when there is virtually zero chance of ever getting paid is going to give you a heart attack.

The more time and money you put into this the more time and money you have wasted and the longer it will take for you to get over it. Nobody is going to do anything that will compel them to pay you if you are in the U.S. It's time to move on with life. If they get back on their feet you may get paid one day, forcing the issue knowing they are broke will only make matters worse.

FWIW the FTP situation is somewhat different than this. I also have serious doubts about US player there will ever get paid but that is a different topic.

A lawsuit is not always a slap-in-the-face move ensuring that the two sides become kill-or-be-killed enemies. Sometimes a lawsuit can be pursued in relatively agreeable manner where the sides recognize the position of each other and try and compromise in a manner that protects everyone best.

A lawsuit by the players against AP/UB/Cereus can be pursued either way.

And there is also nothing that prevents the lawyers from both sides speaking to each other well before any formal legal action is pursued. In fact, it happens all the time.

The important thing is for players, especially players with significant amounts tied up, to get personal legal advice. This is all about money now, not politics. Players have to do whatever they think is best to get a return of their money. This is not the kind of case in which a political association can represent everyone's interests.

That does not mean that private associations of players cannot act as a group. In fact that is probably the most cost effective way to move (so long as individual circumstances are still individually addressed).

Bottom line: it is inherently valuable, no matter what specific course of action is chosen, to be legally represented and ready to act (together as needed) to maximize the chance of getting the return of players' balances.

Skallagrim

I think a lot of people thought that the crooks sold the company. When i decided to deposit on there i read that. Sure people can say those of us that thought this should have done more research. But i read it and believed it. Makes sense doesn't it? If i knew the crooks were still running it i may have not played there, but definitely wouldn't have had such a large balance.

I guess I should have looked deeper into it. But at least some people really thought the crooks had sold their interest in the company. For example if i had known how poorly FT was ran i wouldn't have had as large a balance on there either. Should we blame anyone that had FT balances too for being foolish about that company?

Do you remember the big Jack in the Box E-coli scare a few years ago? I figured at that time that Jack was probably the safest place to eat a burger for a while. I kind of felt the same about AP and (supposedly) new ownership, an additional scandal would hurt them much more than most at that point.

Even if i do lose the 40k i had on there i probably made 10k a month for the last couple years from that site alone, i won't cry too bad. I just hate the fact that these crooks might get away with their scam.


PS: Skall,

I had 43k on there, do you think this is enough that a lawyer might want to do something for a big cut of that if we win? If so any recommendations as to who i should contact? I am moving out of the Country soon which might complicate the matter.

all you're gonna do if you somehow win is force them into bankruptcy which means no one gets paid anything. You're wasting your time and money by chasing this lawsuit. Let them try to get back on their feet, thats the only real chance we have at this point.

Cheers for the info and I do see where you are coming from. But maybe, pursuing them via the KGC might put enough pressure on the kgc not to grant them a license in the future...

Sharky, I do remember it but thought it was more than a few years ago. I know time files, but you might be dating yourself here JNTB e coli scare

It was in 1993. Granted, I knew it was more than a few years ago but it being almost 20 years ago surprises me. I would have said maybe ten years.

there is only one table above 100nl??? is that normal for UB now

Anybody else getting a security certificate expiration warning when trying to open UB cashier?

Yeah, i'm getting it too. It say's "this certificate has expired or is not yet valid"

Valid from 7/19/2010- 8/19/2011

I get it from their popup also