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Can we discuss Cereus specifically? Can we discuss Cereus specifically?

06-17-2011 , 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noles321
What about limit holdem and o8 and more importantly blackjack?
It was:
limit holdem, o8, stud, mixed - no active tables
blackjack - no idea
06-17-2011 , 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwarF
They are trying to find a solution and they are obviously not trying to scam anyone.
This is kinda funny, considering we're talking about cereus.
06-17-2011 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jourdain
This is kinda funny, considering we're talking about cereus.
Yes it is. But to me trying to scam us and paying out small amounts of money just doesn't add up. I am open to ideas though
06-17-2011 , 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwarF
But to me trying to scam us and paying out small amounts of money just doesn't add up.
In a lot of scams small amounts are actually paid out, to keep up the pretence of being legitimate.
06-17-2011 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilco666
In a lot of scams small amounts are actually paid out, to keep up the pretence of being legitimate.
Maybe, but how does it fit in this specific situation? Couldn't they have run with the money weeks ago, if the had wanted to?
06-17-2011 , 11:12 AM
11:06 am ET

NLHE: 67 players (14 tables)
Omaha: 14 players (3 tables)

no other cash games

tournaments 180 players (7 tourneys)

sng 23 players (6 tourneys)

The above does not include freerolls or play money . Tourneys include only "running" and "late registration" status.
06-17-2011 , 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueodum
dwarf,

You are being hopelessly naive. The amount of traffic is very relevant. The revenue they are generating from the poker side is much too small to sustain them, and this is shown by the small number of active players on the site. As well, they are not meeting many of their tourney guarantees (as small as they are).

I have no doubt that people were paid, at least up until recently, but it can't go on much longer due to the above considerations. Cereus is caught in a death spiral and there is pretty much nothing that can be done even if it were run by well-intentioned and competent managers (which it isn't).
The fact of the matter is everything on this thread is speculation. You don't know any more than any of us, so you can't claim that they will stop paying out soon. No one knows exactly where this company is at financially, because we don't know how much money they have tied up and if/when they are going to get it back . Please don't make judgements like this if you have no real evidence to back it up.
06-17-2011 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazy489
The fact of the matter is everything on this thread is speculation. You don't know any more than any of us, so you can't claim that they will stop paying out soon. No one knows exactly where this company is at financially, because we don't know how much money they have tied up and if/when they are going to get it back . Please don't make judgements like this if you have no real evidence to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazy489
Not really sure how you have 15k posts and still don't understand this issue. The DoJ still has several HUGE accounts locked up for both FTP and AP. And by huge i mean between 50 and 100 million for each site. If you think AP/UB is broke you are kidding yourself. The DoJ has yet to release these huge bank accounts, I think, because they have yet to get every person indicted on BF to plead guilty. Also this whole thing is a process, the initial compliance report regarding the doj/ap agreement should be coming out soon and we will learn more.
Positive speculation is as useless as negative speculation.
06-17-2011 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
The fact of the matter is everything on this thread is speculation.
Wrong. The traffic stats I give are fact.

With such low traffic, reason dictates that the current revenue stream for UB/AP from poker is very small. Maybe their blackjack revenue can carry them through - I have seen no stats on that.

But if we were to make an educated guess, as we must when we are planning our own future actions, it is much more likely that cereus will fold than it will return to health and thrive.
06-17-2011 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwarF
Maybe, but how does it fit in this specific situation? Couldn't they have run with the money weeks ago, if the had wanted to?
Disclaimer: Pure speculation!

They may well have already 'ran off with the money'. It said in what appeared to me to be a well sourced article that in 2009 they posted losses of +$30MM to their investors in Norway. I think the very strong suspicion is that key individuals have received large payouts whilst these losses were incurred by the company.
There could be any number of reasons they haven't yet declared bankruptcy; maybe they are looking to sell their software/assets or company, maybe they are looking to set up another outfit and it suits them for UB to stay open for now. Negotiating the DoJ issue has to be a priority for them, and simply declaring all their US customers have lost their money can't put them in a strong position with the US government.Any small losses incurred now could easily be insignificant in the grander scheme of things.

Small amounts of player payouts are only one cost they are incurring whilst remaining open for business. I wouldn't be surprised if the value of player payouts made since BF is less than other running costs incurred in that timeframe, but obviously have no idea. I am just trying to put the issue of small amounts of player payouts into context of running costs for the site.
06-17-2011 , 01:21 PM
Why doesn't everyone with substantial amounts of money log on and play and see what happens instead of doing nothing but log on 2+2 and cry ?
06-17-2011 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGMileyCyrus
Why doesn't everyone with substantial amounts of money log on and play and see what happens instead of doing nothing but log on 2+2 and cry ?
Because the vast majority of us live in the USA and can't?
06-17-2011 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBTHorton
Because the vast majority of us live in the USA and can't?
Lol I obviously meant that for NON US players my bad I should of been more clear
06-17-2011 , 01:29 PM
I think you are seriously underestimating the intelligence of the NON US player pool.
06-17-2011 , 01:31 PM
Meh. It's fairly easy to see why people don't play there. There are no games, and you can't even withdraw your money.

I don't know whether that means you should log on to 2p2 and cry, but winning monopoly money isn't a very good way to spend your time.
06-17-2011 , 01:37 PM
I fully understand the skepticism but for all we know us playing may be the only way to save the site and get paid, we have no idea it is better to try something then do nothing in my opinion. I understand it sucks balls we may not see all our money but what if they are doing payouts currently with rake generated ? then let's survival of the fittest the **** out of this till one person on UB is left with all the monies.
06-17-2011 , 01:44 PM
Well for the record I don't have any money on there. I signed up at UB after breaking even on Pokerstars at microstakes whilst learning the very basics. Took their free $50, played enough hands to withdraw and built a reasonable bankroll for small stakes from that back at Pokerstars.
06-17-2011 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGMileyCyrus
but what if they are doing payouts currently with rake generated ?
I don't understand this statement. You are saying they aren't paying out everything they have while it belongs to players but instead are waiting to convert it into company money and then they are paying it out to players?
06-17-2011 , 01:50 PM
I noticed there are a lot of people saying that there is not enough players to sustain the Cereus Network. My question is how much overhead/expenses does Cereus have? To me it seems like they should be able to be self sustainable even with the current traffic.
06-17-2011 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevenGrover
I don't understand this statement. You are saying they aren't paying out everything they have while it belongs to players but instead are waiting to convert it into company money and then they are paying it out to players?
I am throwing out a hypothetical, yes the money belongs to us no we shouldn't have to play to get it we should have access to it when we want but clearly this isn't the case atm. I however just like several others have substantial money on here that I would like to see and if playing everyday is the only way i can see all or even some well then I will suck it up and do it. If it turns out I have done nothing but lined Scott Tom's pockets with change for the valet's and yacht club balling so be it at least when the ship sinks I will know I attempted to do something. If the money is gone it's gone but if playing and generating rake somehow magically helps this company become appealing to investors or another company to purchase then good (obviously extremely unlikely but liek I keep saying doing something is better then nothing)
06-17-2011 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGMileyCyrus
doing something is better then nothing)
I understand. And it sucks you guys are in the dark. But that kind of action doesn't do anything to put pressure on the owners. If you totalled all of the cashouts on 2p2 since BF, you would not come near $100k. This strategy has been hella successful because players still seem to be torn between supporting the room and getting angry. If you are the owner/founders, you are probably thinking we can just ride this out and let the lawyers keep doing their thing and see what happens.

When players decide to get angry at the owner/founders, then you might see calls to hire legal help to do asset research on their property and to look into what options are available. Maybe they have turned down lowball offers which would give players some percentage on the dollar but nothing to the owner/founders. I'm sure if PartyBwin offered .50 on the dollar with a 90 cooling off period, most players would jump at the opportunity.
06-17-2011 , 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevenGrover
I understand. And it sucks you guys are in the dark. But that kind of action doesn't do anything to put pressure on the owners. If you totalled all of the cashouts on 2p2 since BF, you would not come near $100k. This strategy has been hella successful because players still seem to be torn between supporting the room and getting angry. If you are the owner/founders, you are probably thinking we can just ride this out and let the lawyers keep doing their thing and see what happens.

When players decide to get angry at the owner/founders, then you might see calls to hire legal help to do asset research on their property and to look into what options are available. Maybe they have turned down lowball offers which would give players some percentage on the dollar but nothing to the owner/founders. I'm sure if PartyBwin offered .50 on the dollar with a 90 cooling off period, most players would jump at the opportunity.
Ok then using this hypothetical situation wouldn't everyone on generating rake help us get a better return if the site had more desirable numbers?
06-17-2011 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevenGrover
When players decide to get angry at the owner/founders, then you might see calls to hire legal help to do asset research on their property and to look into what options are available. Maybe they have turned down lowball offers which would give players some percentage on the dollar but nothing to the owner/founders. I'm sure if PartyBwin offered .50 on the dollar with a 90 cooling off period, most players would jump at the opportunity.

this isnt gonna happen because they're still in negotiations with the doj so in the mean time keeping site traffic up is in the best interest of all players with money on the site. Worse thing we can do is abandon the site right now and expect to get money from bankrupt company
06-17-2011 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro Rec Player
Well for the record I don't have any money on there. I signed up at UB after breaking even on Pokerstars at microstakes whilst learning the very basics. Took their free $50, played enough hands to withdraw and built a reasonable bankroll for small stakes from that back at Pokerstars.
Hmm, from this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...09/index2.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro Rec Player
Playing on a rogue site with full knowledge of their shady activity is what hurts online poker, not threads on a forum.

Or are you saying the UB scandal sticky at the top of NVG is bad for poker too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro Rec Player
Lol. You had fair warning. Playing on the site obviously kept it afloat, and has caused others who perhaps didn't know it was a rogue site - those players that made the games 'soft' for you - to also lose money. I absolutely hope those that knew it was dodgy don't get paid out, and am enjoying watching you suffer now.
Care to explain? You take the free $50 (as I and many others did), run it up, withdraw it in time not to be affected by BF and then proceed to troll others who weren't as fortunate? Or can I just put you on ignore list?
06-17-2011 , 03:08 PM
thats the attitude from most people who dont have money on ub/ap. They want to see the company fail and they could careless about anybody with funds on the site. ub players have to look out for them selves and the best way to do that is by keeping traffic up

      
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