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Old 01-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #51
46&2
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan C. Lawhon View Post
Mr. Turbo:

This is really not that surprising when you consider the number of cheating scams that have occurred and the gentle "slap on the wrist" punishments that have been meted out to the guilty perpetrators.

I received an "Emergency Email" this morning from the PPA extolling me to contact my state Attorney General to voice my concern over some anti online poker proclamation that our AG is considering signing. The PPA was emphatic in insisting that I should "stand up for poker" and let my voice be heard. They insisted, in the email, that "legal and regulated poker has worked just fine - as demonstrated by the regulated brick and mortar casinos." My question to the PPA is as follows: Where in the hell was the PPA while all this cheating and scamming was occurring on the internet sites? Answer: They had their hand out taking money from those same sites!

As long as the PPA (and the AGA) sit back and don't say (or do) a damn thing about all this cheating and corruption in poker, I won't lift a finger (or send a single email) in support of my "right" to play internet poker. I'm of the attitude that as long as these cheating dirt bag poker players continue to be treated with kid gloves (because it would be "embarrassing" to crack down on them) then we don't really need internet poker (or any other kind of poker) here in the United States. I would rather have no games at all in lieu of games filled with cheats and scammers - and casino operators who are loath to clean the mess up.

Broken Back Alan of Huntsville
Amen, well said sir
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by August West View Post
Anyone know the approximate value of all chips in play?

Somewhere in the neighborhood if 96,240,000 according to number of entries tweeted by Tab.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:12 PM   #53
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan C. Lawhon View Post
Mr. Turbo:
This is really not that surprising when you consider the number of cheating scams that have occurred and the gentle "slap on the wrist" punishments that have been meted out to the guilty perpetrators.
The PPA is a lobying group, not the poker police.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:13 PM   #54
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

When you bag and tag overnight, I've never understood why they don't have someone count your chips. It wouldn't take that long. They would be able to get to the bottom of these types of scams more quickly that way in a multi-day event IMO.

I guess you could under-report the number of chips you have if they don't count it.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:16 PM   #55
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

T96,240,000
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:17 PM   #56
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

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Originally Posted by TAFFYMAN View Post
This could turn out really bad for borgata. If njgc makes them refund everyone the remaining players have a very big lawsuit. Borgata is about to take a real big bubble bath
TAFFY:

Serves them right. I hope the NJGC does come down hard on the Borgata. If they had made an example of Men The Master years ago by prosecuting him and sending him off to do a 5-10 year prison stretch, (and put the fear of God in other would-be cheats by doing so), they might not be confronted with this calamity.

I've talked with old-timers, (i.e. Las Vegas dealers and other folks who were around back in the "good old days" - the 1950's and 1960's), when most of the Vegas joints were run by the mob. They've told me that back then if you got caught cheating, the "wise guys" had a very effective - and a very quickly dispensed - method of dealing with you ... they dragged you out in the alleyway and proceeded to impair your ability to walk. Nowadays places like the Borgata seem to be content with "Now tsk tsk boys. Please don't let us catch you cheating because it might make us look bad ..."

And some people wonder why poker is dying.

Broken Back Alan of Huntsville
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:18 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan C. Lawhon View Post
TAFFY:

Serves them right. I hope the NJGC does come down hard on the Borgata. If they had made an example of Men The Master years ago by prosecuting him and sending him off to do a 5-10 year prison stretch, (and put the fear of God in other would-be cheats by doing so), they might not be confronted with this calamity.

I've talked with old-timers, (i.e. Las Vegas dealers and other folks who were around back in the "good old days" - the 1950's and 1960's), when most of the Vegas joints were run by the mob. They've told me that back then if you got caught cheating, the "wise guys" had a very effective - and a very quickly dispensed - method of dealing with you ... they dragged you out in the alleyway and proceeded to impair your ability to walk. Nowadays places like the Borgata seem to be content with "Now tsk tsk boys. Please don't let us catch you cheating because it might make us look bad ..."

And some people wonder why poker is dying.

Broken Back Alan of Huntsville
Poker isn't dying gangsta
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:20 PM   #58
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

It seems for the best that some will step away from the poker world indefinitely.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:21 PM   #59
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan C. Lawhon View Post
Mr. Turbo:

This is really not that surprising when you consider the number of cheating scams that have occurred and the gentle "slap on the wrist" punishments that have been meted out to the guilty perpetrators.

I received an "Emergency Email" this morning from the PPA extolling me to contact my state Attorney General to voice my concern over some anti online poker proclamation that our AG is considering signing. The PPA was emphatic in insisting that I should "stand up for poker" and let my voice be heard. They insisted, in the email, that "legal and regulated poker has worked just fine - as demonstrated by the regulated brick and mortar casinos." My question to the PPA is as follows: Where in the hell was the PPA while all this cheating and scamming was occurring on the internet sites? Answer: They had their hand out taking money from those same sites!

As long as the PPA (and the AGA) sit back and don't say (or do) a damn thing about all this cheating and corruption in poker, I won't lift a finger (or send a single email) in support of my "right" to play internet poker. I'm of the attitude that as long as these cheating dirt bag poker players continue to be treated with kid gloves (because it would be "embarrassing" to crack down on them) then we don't really need internet poker (or any other kind of poker) here in the United States. I would rather have no games at all in lieu of games filled with cheats and scammers - and casino operators who are loath to clean the mess up.

Broken Back Alan of Huntsville
I agree with Micro. Honestly, the PPA has nothing to do with this particular situation. My question here is should we let this tourney continue with these counterfeit chips in play without anyone speaking up about this manner?
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:23 PM   #60
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

Well, this should be fun...
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:25 PM   #61
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Men the master was deep in this tourney before getting eliminated a few hands before the end of the day yesterday. Maybe he didn't bring the chips in himself but I bet he has something to do with it
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:26 PM   #62
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

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Originally Posted by bentaylor1988 View Post
Men the master was deep in this tourney before getting eliminated a few hands before the end of the day yesterday. Maybe he didn't bring the chips in himself but I bet he has something to do with it
Did you confirm this by thinking about it?
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:26 PM   #63
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

Did they use chopsticks to bring the fake chips into play?
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:28 PM   #64
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

I played in this event.

There were almost 5000 runners in this over Day 1a, 1b and 1c.

Once again the Borgata could not seem to handle the entries nor find competent dealers. I'm the very last one to complain about new dealers or anything at a tournament, but the level of incompetency was astounding. In one case, our dealer could simply not count at all nor could she understand English!

With 30 minute levels, some tables were getting few hands in at each level due to the idiocy of the dealer.

They had three different areas where tournament tables were set up. On the four occasions when my table broke, no dealer or floor person bothered to tell anyone to rack their chips. On one table break a guy I was playing with walked over to the temporary cafeteria with his chips in hand and proceeded get in the food line. In one case, I was sent to a table that was already broken up AND there were two plastic crates of tournament chips sitting on that table with no dealer or floor person attending to them.

In the ballroom they won't be able to review cameras as there are very few of them and unless the Borgata has invested in some expensive equipment, cameras four stories up in the ballroom rafters are not going to yield too much detailed information.

There were several times during the tournament that it would have been very easy to pocket chips, introduce new chips or even just hand your stack over to another player.

Everything from the lines to get into this tournament, the tournament staff, the tournament structure and even the payout procedure was extremely flawed. It was like this place never ran a tournament before. The TD should not be anywhere near a poker tournament.

Hopefully WPT steps in for the Main Event.

Last edited by 42-2KM; 01-17-2014 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:29 PM   #65
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

This happened with 27 left. Average chip stack 3,564.444. They didn't start play today?

Starting Chips was 20,000 so 96,240,000 as above. 4,812 initial runners.

Can't imagine how much tape will have to be reviewed.

They have about 2 racks of bogus $5000T chips to find? a lot of starting stacks. Over 50 more players.

Could have been introduced at any time. Beginning, during, end of sessions.

Based on the massive amount of chips will a 1.2% addition change the outcome? Even if one player has them at the final tables.

Disconcerting. Who? Why? and When?

24 hour delay for the final 27, but the other tournaments are going forward. Bet the chips will be looked at by staff at the end of today.

Last edited by PALLADINN; 01-17-2014 at 04:31 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:30 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by News777 View Post
Can you fly in. Borgata needs your help.
I have no idea how to fix this. Been thinking about it. Best thing I came up with was to restart the day the chips were introduced but thats not close to fair.

Really complicated situation.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:31 PM   #67
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Crazy, who has the balls and is it really worth it given the scrutiny a top finish would bring? have a feeling someone will get caught, perpetrators have to be amongst those with significant chips stacks, only question is, is 1 day enough time to conduct a profession investigation. Unlikely if you ask me, this is a messy one, will be interesting to say the least.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:31 PM   #68
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

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Originally Posted by Nobel1 View Post
Did they use chopsticks to bring the fake chips into play?
lmfao at this^^^
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:34 PM   #69
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

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Originally Posted by MicroRoller View Post
I've known 5k chips for years. We come in contact once in a while at tournaments. They've been nothing but great to me and I have a hard time believing this is true.

I think we should all calm down until there is a proper investigation before we start slandering such a good denomination chip.
5k chips twitter (@5kChips) went silent.

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Old 01-17-2014, 04:34 PM   #70
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42-2KM View Post
I played in this event.

There were almost 5000 runners in this over Day 1a, 1b and 1c.

Once again the Borgata could not seem to handle the entries nor find competent dealers. I'm the very last one to complain about new dealers or anything at a tournament, but the level of incompetency was astounding. In one case, our dealer could simply not count at all nor could she understand English!

With 30 minute levels, some tables were getting few hands in at each level due to the idiocy of the dealer.

They had three different areas where tournament tables were set up. On the four occasions when my table broke, no dealer or floor person bothered to tell anyone to rack their chips. On one table break a guy I was playing with walked over to the temporary cafeteria with his chips in hand and proceeded get in the food line. In one case, I was sent to a table that was already broken up AND there were two plastic crates of tournament chips sitting on that table with no dealer or floor person attending to them.

In the ballroom they won't be able to review cameras as there are very few of them and unless the Borgata has invested in some expensive equipment, cameras four stories up in the ballroom rafters are not going to yield too much detailed information.

There were several times during the tournament that it would have been very easy to pocket chips or even just hand them over to another player.

Everything from the lines to get into this tournament, the tournament staff, the tournament structure and even the payout procedure was extremely flawed. It was like this place never ran a tournament before. The TD should not be anywhere near a poker tournament.

Hopefully WPT steps in for the Main Event.

I played in this event as well and I agree, some of the dealers ahd no clue what they were doing, couldn't even figure out who had the winning hand .. or what they needed to do or where to go after there dealing session was over ...
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:35 PM   #71
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I have no idea how to fix this. Been thinking about it. Best thing I came up with was to restart the day the chips were introduced but thats not close to fair.

Really complicated situation.
Day 1.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:35 PM   #72
Tyler Durden
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

Those chips look obviously fake. How long did it take for someone to speak up?
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:36 PM   #73
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

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Originally Posted by 42-2KM View Post
In the ballroom they won't be able to review cameras as there are very few of them and unless the Borgata has invested in some expensive equipment, cameras four stories up in the ballroom rafters are not going to yield too much detailed information.
oh no
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:37 PM   #74
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WhoJedi was selling fake T5K's near the bathroom for $4/chip, threw in autographed chopsticks as a bonus.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:41 PM   #75
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Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open

The opening event of a Borgata tournament series always seems like the worst one to play in. Far too many inexperienced/untrained dealers. I was in one a few years ago and many dealers chatted with players incessantly during his entire down. It was awful.
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