All you guys talking **** and saying it's 'good for the game to reward recs more' are way from the point here, the thing is, alot of ssnl regs grinded for a whole year to get the VIP status (it's 30k in rake yo) and now 888 is reducing the rakeback % with ONE MONTH NOTICE. Sure it is in their terms and conditions, but it is definatly unfair.

Thank you. As a fellow VIP on 888, I have no problem with the change because I knew it was inevitable and I think it is the best for poker long term. The problem is with the one month notice when we grinded an entire year to have the benefit, with what I thought was a promise to get 27% rakeback for the following year.

I agree and think it is absolutely disgusting

the sites and mass grinders have already sucked all of the fun out of online poker and newbies have no shot to win anymore when it's them vs a table full of regs anyway

but dip****s on here think playing on super tight tables against guys who take forever to act while getting your ass handed to you is fun so fish will just play no matter what. it doesn't work that way.

i do agree 1 month notice is horse**** though

quick question, is there any rakeback at 888 at all? started to playing there recently, seaking is right, throwing eggs is fun, but do you get anything back at all?

The bold part is hilarious. We are talking about 888 not Stars. I haven't played a tight game on 888 in ten years and that includes the 10/20 and 15/30 games.
You are attracting zero new fish by doing this change. Recreational players don't play for loyalty points or cashback and some of them won't even find the button to convert the points. And those who do find the button prolongs their play for just a small time since they are only getting a few dollars more.
VIP:s like me lose thousands of dollars though. The only thing that is going to happen is , that just like before, we are going to take all of the recreational players money but under a longer timespan which means that the split of the profit between the VIP:s and 888 are shifting towards 888 making more money and the VIP less money.
No gain is won for grinders in terms of providing a recycled ecosystem by making a RP:s money last a few hours longer. The only way to ensure a healthy ecosystem is to make an incentive for RP:s to redeposit and I have a very, very hard time to imagine that would happen as a result of the change of rakeback system.
It is alright being a commercial company trying to squeeze every cent out of your customer but it is just pathetic telling us that we (grinders, VIP:s) also benefits of these kind of changes.

And giving a one month notice of this change is exactly as bad as what you described above. But it can be worse. I play at Lucky Ace poker and they haven't even bothered informing me.

QUOTE=mumpfmampf;46060526] You must really, really suck at poker if you play a lot on 888 and minor rakeback changes affect your win rate in a serious way. The 888 VIP system is a joke and it has been for a long time (and don´t get me started on cash out conversion rape). Just win the money on the tables and stfu.[/QUOTE]

That makes no sense at all. According to my HEM T won 40K the last year and a half on 888 and paid 60K in rake . I can't see the correlation between:

Winning 40K=being glad losing 4.2K in rakeback.

Imagine you went into an Electronic store bying a TV for $1000 and then one week later got a bill that said you have to pay $1200 for it. By your logic you are not entitled to complain if you can afford paying it.

Honestly he prolly doesnt play much and shouldnt be taken seriously. He thinks the way I thought the first year I was playing. PFFF rakeback who needs it. Then you get PT or HEM and it hits you how much money you're giving away in rake and you're the only idiot without rakeback.


Also pretty scummy of 888 to basically just **** on their costumers when they grinded fora year to get a certain perk to only basically getting it stolen away from them. If a person did something on this level you'd think he was a piece of ****, LOL at anyone defending their actions when they really are just screwing a bunch of people over.



I'm all for giving back to the recs but god damn you don't need to basically butt rape your long term costumers and **** on your own brand to do it.

Someone posted in a thread that 888 agreed with him and they were going to manually credit his account with reward points each month. If you've not already tried asking for the same then do so.

we clearly shouldn't make things more fun for bad players, we should make it as awful an experience as possible

frankly if i'm ever going to deposit again, it'll be on unibet

This is clearly a dirty trick by 888 but if cutting rakeback meant a lot of annoying break even regulars went broke, or quit, they could have all of my reward points tomorrow.

If you play on 888 and can't make a living without rewards, you have no business calling yourself a professional or semi professional poker player.

True plus a lot of these breakeven guys are going to be short stackers so anything that helps get rid of them is fine by me.

I agree that this is truly crappy. I would be pissed if I was in your shoes as well. I truly would. The reality is that sites are in business to make money, and to make as much as possible. This is how businesses operate, grow, and survive. I GUARANTEE that sites know more about their business than you do. They run all sorts of analysis to best operate their company in order to make money, as they should.

Lots of regs complain when changes like this happen, which I can understand because it directly costs them money, but the reality is that the sites don't exist so you can make money. You are not entitled to make money at poker, but a lot of people think they are which is hilarious to me. The OP and lots of other regs sound like entitled little pr*cks when they complain in the manner they do.

In today's online world, EVERYONE and I effin mean EVERYONE, should not trust any site with their programs. They will change them at any time when it best suits them, as they should. This is REALITY in today's world and you should EXPECT this to keep happening. If you don't and you keep getting butthurt when it happens, then you are a complete moron or just an entitled little pr*ck.

needs a "throw chips" option.

The fun part in here is, that you need to rake 500$ to get 10$ back under the old circumstances.


Which fish/recreational/non-professional rakes fugging 500$ a year?
Oh now they get 25% more so they only have 400$ too rake? I guess they rather have to rake 500$ for 12.5$.


Now tell me, what percentage of players below the gold level (750$ rake a month) pays 500$ rake?

A lot?

yeah....

Didn't I see you before? I think it was at the RNC, or maybe an Ayn Rand fanboy convention.

Anyway, what's truly shameful is your avatar. That moustache, along with that stern "I'm an a-hole, and proud of it" expression... just... eeeeeewwwww.

Anyway, the problem is that the sites are changing the terms of an offer after it has already been accepted. They lure the regs in with a promise to give them a certain percentage of rakeback for 1 year if they meet certain playing requirements, and then change the terms after those requirements have been met. The honorable thing to do would be to make the change effective a year from when it was announed, so that the people who have already earned VIP status get what was promised them.

And if your defense is a bit of fine print buried somewhere in the terms and conditions that authorizes 888 to modify the payout structure; clauses that give one party unilateral authority to modify an agreement however they want to are unenforceable as a matter of law.

LOL. You are funny.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they cutting the average high volume player's rb by $1,000's while giving the average low volume player around a $2 increase?

How can that possibly be good for poker? It's a cash grab with a lame excuse.

This 'health of the game' excuse is a perfect cover for the sites to keep increasing rake in a game with decreasing edges and players. They should be taking less and concentrating on correctly distributing rewards to valuable players as an attempt to RETAIN players and GROW the industry.

Sad direction online is heading, hopefully live will be more sustainable when the sites tank their own industry in a few years time.

If it drives out all of the break even tedious regulars that saturate the games and rely on rewards to make their grind worthwhile, of course it has to be good for poker long term.

I understand how that upsets a large amount of people but it's a pretty simple solution for them. Improve, or quit.

About time the sites started forcing these leeches out of the games.

Oh yeah? Why don't you sue them then Mr. Victim?

What evidence do you have to show that sites like 888 aren't doing exactly this? Do you have any relevant data to support your conclusion? Maybe some figures to show that site's profits are growing disproportionately to the amount of money being circulated in the economy? Something that even remotely supports what you say?

I'm not saying that evidence such as this doesn't exist, but no one complaining has posted anything.

Sites taking money out of a certain group of players pockets =/= sites putting money into their own pockets, and without anything to definitively show that operators are taking so much profit out of the economy that it's hurting everyone....All we have here is a case of two kids fighting over their dad's bike both shouting "It's mine! No, IT'S MINE!" while dad stands by thinking to himself "Man, why can't these damn kids be grateful that I let them use my bike at all?!" and wondering why he did so in the first place.

This site had a lame 2% cash back option and took that back from winning players. I guess when virtually all sites/networks started giving good rewards to high volume players Pacific/888 started their rewards program too. But does anybody really think the tens of thousand they are going to steal from high volume players are going to be distributed to losing players in terms of free rolls or free electronics? Also even if they gave out free deposits into the losing players account that would get gobbled up by a high volume player the next time a fish got AK and couldn't fold on an obvious set mining situation or couldn't fold their over pair, etc, etc.

They do it because they know nobody will sue and that they'll get away with it. If they are sued, the court will just make them honor the existing agreement, so they'll be no worse off than they were originally (except for legal fees). So it's a no-lose proposition for them, but legally they don't have the right to do it.

And you are flunking out of law school. Get off NVG and go crack them books.