Hello,

I've received this email today from 888 poker:


Hi xxx, (username: xxxxx),

We’d like to let you know about some changes that are happening at 888poker.

As part of our ongoing strategy to improve the experience of our recreational players, 888’s network will be updating its Loyalty Rewards Program to be more balanced, with greater consideration for players with lower status levels.

As of the 1st of March 2015, the cashback amount for all players with Blue, Iron, Chrome, Copper and Bronze loyalty statuses will be increased by 25%, and the cashback amount for Platinum, VIP and VIP-Diamond players will be reduced by 25%.

We believe these changes will result in a more robust community of active members and will improve your 888poker experience.


Regards,
888poker, VIP Department
email: [email protected]






I'm a VIP member. This will affect me for thousands of dollars (less) each year.

I think it's unfair that the conditions of a VIP status (like SuperNova, for a whole year) can be changed within one month notice. I've worked hard to achieve this year status and this was by far the best benifit of the status.
I am seriously considering changing to another site over this.

The reasons they are giving are misleading. The blue-broze members get so little cashback.. They will receive 1.25% instead of 1% (or 3.75% instead of 3% etc). Most of these members would probably not even know how to cash in the cashback they have earned.
I think 888 makes most of their money of Platinum and VIP members.

I am hoping to find a way to prevent this change. Who else is a VIP member here, what can we do together?

what about gold and silver?

Dunno, it's not mentioned in the mail so it's most likely not affected

1. There are likely many times more blue-bronze members than higher level players, so the increase for these members is large in real dollars.

2. It doesn't matter if they notice or not, that money will likely end up back in your account after beating the fish that all of a sudden have more money in their account.

It's the way that sites are moving now, shifting the focus (and the money spent on them) to the casual player to try and keep them in action as long as possible.

There is no way the decrease in rewards to high volume players is offset by the increase in rewards to low volume players. The relationship between VIP level and rake generated almost definitely follows a power law, meaning that the lower VIP levels have a disproportionate number of players [prob 90%+] when compared to the rake they pay [ABSOLUTELY <20%].

When we look at it this way, we see that while there are a ton of players on these tiers, they do not pay much rake at all so the changes are nowhere near proportional.

The second point also doesnt hold because of the fact that it isnt a zero sum transfer from high volume regs to low volume fish, so to get your share of the rewards back you would need to win from a disproportionate number of these fish when compared to other regs.

This will not help regs.

I just wanted to point out that these ''changes'' increasing by 25% the low VIP is absolutly meaningless for ANY type of players.

The cashback of these VIP (blue, iron, chrome, copper, bronze) are all 2%. A 25% increase means it is now 2,5% instead of 2%. All these VIP are basically the same they're just easy step to grind so the player can feel good about himself.

In order to be silver VIP, which could be argued as the second VIP after Blue since everything between blue and bronze is the same (aside some freerolls that are worth way less than 1$ per entry), you need to rake 250$ a month.
Once silver, that x25% increase (or +0,5%) isnt available to you anymore it is only available to those who rake 249$ or less a month. In other word, you get MAX 1,25$ per month from this increase and all the rest of the 888 playerpool remain inchanged or get completly ****ed

I would also like to add some facts :

- In order to get 20% rakeback on 888 poker, you need to rake TWICE the money required for supernova. Supernova offer AT LEAST 40% rakeback.

- To get 25% rakeback, you need to rake over 80% of what supernova ELITE requires. Supernova elite give ~66% rakeback

- 888 poker rakes more than almost any site out there. 5% up tp 4$. This is crazy you can easily end up paying over 10 more buyin per month in rake on this site.

- The table max on 888 poker is 6.

It is more fishy yes, but do you really think the fish will make up for all this ? I doubt it

Ladies and Gentlemen!

Your Greedy Amaya Industry Leader Trickle Down Effect!

Enjoy!

Nothing to do with amaya. More on a par with Ongames Essence model, ipoker kicking off skins for having too many winning players etc. and a general change in sites policy of trying to reward fish more than winning players.

So if Amaya decided to rake less and give out more rakeback, you're saying 888 would have still implemented these changes?

Wow. Tough to stuff so much ignorance, short-sightedness and selfish entitlement into one post, but you did it OP.

No one cares about you or the rest of the mid level mediocre grinders OP, and no one should care. You probably aren't good enough to be the one starting games in a low liquidity environment and you aren't bad enough to be depositing and adding money into the economy. Thus, no one cares about you because you add nothing to the economy.

Now, this isn't to say that being a player in your position and grinding out a profit is a bad thing; if you're able to do it and enjoy it, good for you, no one really should have a problem with what you're doing. However, at no point did anyone give you a guarantee that you would make a certain amount of money or any at all. If this recent reduction takes away so much money form you that playing poker isn't really a good use of time anymore, that's your fault, not the site's.

But to openly complain about a change that obviously helps the economy and will create a better experience for the people whose money you are taking? That's shameful.

Yes, these fish will thrive under that massive 1$ a month increase

Why not? The world doesn't revolve around Stars; sites have been making moves like this for several years now.

It doesn't matter how much it equals out to per person. What matter is that overall, fish/recs will have a smaller risk of ruin on each deposit, their money will last longer, they will have more fun and it will be better for everyone. Even if it's only a .01% increase, it's better than just giving it to lazy players like OP who are capable of recouping that money otherwise if they were just willing to put in a little work.

agree with giving less to regs and more to recs, BUT

it is MAX 1.25$, they should have at least give the low tiers 8-10% back (i think pretty much nobody would complain then)

even under the new system the money wont last longer - it is prolly like 10bb max, and for some guys its not even a single bb

/€ for midstakes the recs will not get any more, as long as they play approx 500-1k hands/month

of course it matters how much per person it equals to what the ****. How can you even make that point ? Fish aren't a collective team or one entity. They're individual who will gain next to nothing or nothing at all from this. it's ~15$ per years it's absolutly nothing it's not reducing anything. What 1$ is going to do ? reduce their bankruptcy rate by 0,01% like 5 more hands or something ?
And it's assuming that fish will never be 3 months without playing otherwise points get reset.

Also, nobody who can make 30000+++ worth of rake with 6 tables max is lazy in my book. People with the higher vips will lose thousands within 1 month notice.
And what is this ''just put more work argument'' anyway ? If your country increase your taxe by 10% but give a sandwich once a year to every homeless people and tell you ''hey you just have to work harder now don't be lazy !'' you're gonna be like ''oh yeah true lol im not lazy like this ****ing whiny OP''

Have only been playing on Stars for years until recently, and so I just downloaded 888 a couple of days ago to check it out, and don't like it at all (have only played Snap so far). It feels like they're trying to hard to make it seem 'fun', with the 3D table setting, the cartoon characters and the little fish tags you can give people, the tomatoes you can throw, etc.

This is not unique to 888. Nearly all sites are moving their focus towards recs to some extent.

It sucks for a lot of the regs and 888 will benefit from it financially. Best to move sites if you're dissatisfied.

wah wah wah, some winning players will win less, what an atrocious move, I'm entitled to better than this, wah wah wah

no, stfu, study, and increase your winrate. the site owes you guys NOTHING and is 100% within their rights to make any moves that they think will help their business that do not also violate the TOC

In this wonderfully thought out analogy, you imply that the homeless part of society is somehow the source of ALL income for the non-homeless part. I'm just gonna leave you to your incoherent butt-hurtness now.

That's way too many VIP level. Iron, Chrome, and Copper? WTF?

http://www.pokerscout.com/

888 has made genius moves. 888 is the best site for casual that dont know what even "rake" means. They dont care if they can beat the game or not in the long run or even aware of how much money they are paying the site. 888 can take ALL the money in the long run and their customers wouldnt be aware

They just see that the competition is way softer than on Pokerstars lack of any VIP grinders and they win pots more often

do you even play poker?

Fwiw throwing eggs and tomatoes on 888 is pretty fun.

Wasnt BJ trolling some other thread like yesterday? Seems like he just tries to be inflamatory, seems like a good candidate for the ignore list.

Yes. I also realize that any money that I make when I play poker comes from fish, and am fine with sites making moves that better the fish experience, regardless of how much some people may get upset at those moves. Guys like OP and omnisikara can downplay the effects of these moves as much as they want, but the reality is that if things were to stay the way as they are now, that money isn't doing anything useful except line the pockets of a small sect of marginally profitable players, who, if they were to drop off the face of the planet, would have zero negative effect on the economy.

Right now, the money which will soon be given back to fish has 0 value to the site or the economy. In the hands of the fish it has at least some value. A tiny piece of something that has value is entirely better than the whole of something that is entirely worthless.

So for me, it's a choice:

Do I stand behind a marginal winner who clearly has zero regard for or understanding of the source of their income, the fish - who also stands to lose a single persons income if things go in the ****ter

OR

Do I stand behind the site which obviously needs to have some regard and understanding of the fish that make their business go 'round - who also stands to lose $400 million in revenue if things go in the ****ter


Do you get it yet, wise-ass?