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Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world?

11-13-2020 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
Yes, the entire country voted, and per the rules, they elected Donald Trump over HRC in 2016.

You retort by pointing out the useless popular vote edge for Clinton. That's now it works, friendo. You're also making an awfully big assumption when you imply that in the event we chose POTUS using a strict popular national vote, the percentages would've been the same and HRC wins.

If you need evidence of that, just look at this 2020 election where Biden absolutely crushed turnout numbers in the big cities. We know what an election looks like when every lefty in the country, and a large number of republicans come out to vote against someone as distasteful as Trump. I think the consensus appears to be that it doesn't look like a very big win for the Dems.

Biden is going to have to knock this thing out of the park.

Did you read this before posting?

Biden’s going to win by the same electoral vote margin and win the popular vote by 5M instead of losing it by 2M
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-13-2020 , 03:06 PM
Biden is only up to 50.9% of the vote total, so not sure where you get 5% from.

You're also seemingly ignoring the fact that his opponent was Donald Trump, possibly the most actively hated man in American history. How much worse do you think future GOP candidates can get? Name one who could get the nomination and be more of a PR disaster than Trump.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend like this was a great success for the democrats, I won't stop you. Biden won what could be argued as a squeaker, given the circumstances, and that should frighten you if you're on team Blue.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-13-2020 , 03:11 PM
Biden is up 3.4% with a couple % of heavily Biden vote outstanding.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-13-2020 , 03:19 PM
Continuing to greatly enjoy Inso0 DEMANDING that Dems, who generally seem chill after this election, be more angry and upset like he is lol. Like, he's been crying about "snowflakes" and "triggered" for days yet despite his best efforts he can't convince Dems to be anywhere near as mad as he wants them to be!
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-13-2020 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
Biden is only up to 50.9% of the vote total, so not sure where you get 5% from.

You're also seemingly ignoring the fact that his opponent was Donald Trump, possibly the most actively hated man in American history. How much worse do you think future GOP candidates can get? Name one who could get the nomination and be more of a PR disaster than Trump.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend like this was a great success for the democrats, I won't stop you. Biden won what could be argued as a squeaker, given the circumstances, and that should frighten you if you're on team Blue.
Do we need to go over the difference between 5% and 5M?
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-13-2020 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
Biden is only up to 50.9% of the vote total, so not sure where you get 5% from.
Quote:
Nate Silver:
Extrapolating out from current vote totals, I project Biden winning the popular vote by 4.3 percentage points and getting 81.8 million votes to President Trump’s 74.9 million, with a turnout of around 160 million. This is significant because no candidate has ever received 70 million votes in an election — former President Barack Obama came the closest in 2008, with 69.5 million votes — let alone 80 million. That may also be a slightly conservative projection, given the blue shift we’ve seen so far and the fact that late-counted votes such as provisional ballots often lean Democratic. I’d probably bet on Biden’s popular vote margin winding up at closer to 5 points than to 4, and 6 points isn’t entirely out of the question either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
You're also seemingly ignoring the fact that his opponent was Donald Trump, possibly the most actively hated man in American history. How much worse do you think future GOP candidates can get? Name one who could get the nomination and be more of a PR disaster than Trump.
I think Trump was not a very good general election candidate, which is part of the reason why in 2016 and this year he ran about 2 points behind the generic Republican House candidate. But he's pretty popular among Republican voters and not anywhere near as bad a campaigner as people here sometimes say. For instance, he's clearly the best politician currently active at controlling and dominating the media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend like this was a great success for the democrats, I won't stop you. Biden won what could be argued as a squeaker, given the circumstances, and that should frighten you if you're on team Blue.
I don't think it was a great success for Democrats. I just don't start from a baseline expectation of total Democratic domination such that winning the Presidency and the House becomes a failure. My view is that the Republican Party is a formidable political enemy, that Trump winning in 2016 was not a fluke, and that Trump was favored to win back in December last year. So I'm pretty happy to celebrate this victory as a win for its own sake - we got rid of Trump as President. Oh well that we didn't run up the score as much as we hoped. Let's do better next time.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-13-2020 , 08:46 PM
Answer to OP: No, it's par for the course for the rhetoric he uses and image he creates, even during chaotic times. And a lot of it is likely to do with post January income generation (political show and/or media company).

And despite a few Trump tweets and Rudy's usual BS, this pales in comparison to how many other countries worldwide have tried to manipulate voters/defy reality before/during/after elections. So despite it being petty/silly/illogical, most of the US isn't buying into it and it'll have no long term impact on the world's democracies or other institutions.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-14-2020 , 04:11 AM
It runs deeper. The only US president since WWII who didn't either start a war or kill the democratically elected leader of some country is Trump. Obama, Carter and Ford are the next best by this criteria. Trump did less damage abroad in many senses than Kennedy or Clinton.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-14-2020 , 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucleardonkey
It runs deeper. The only US president since WWII who didn't either start a war or kill the democratically elected leader of some country is Trump. Obama, Carter and Ford are the next best by this criteria. Trump did less damage abroad in many senses than Kennedy or Clinton.
I've seen this idea posted a few times - but is it because of the current President/administration, an overall shifting of US policy/learning from mistakes over the last 20 years, or a shifting of global relations overall? I don't claim to have the answer myself, but I observe that you place the previous administration in the "second best" tier which implies it was better in this regard than Bush's administration (LDO), and now the current administration has taken another step. Makes a trend seem like a possibility. Small sample size in number of administrations, but a lengthy time period.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-14-2020 , 08:54 AM
Probably reflects China's ascendence more than anything. In Trump's case also that he was mainly interested in grifting/grafting and had no desire to rustle Putin's feathers.

Where both Obama and Trump could have started a war and did not, that previous presidents like Bush and Clinton probably would have, is Venezuela.

May also reflect that the US is is in a kind of stagnation/decline in terms of power and lacks the power right now.

I tend to agree with the notion that to a certain extent these things are independent of whom is president. On the one hand, one can't get elected president without agreeing to play that game, on the other hand the security/military part of the government does its thing anyway. Certainly the end of the cold war made Korea/Vietnam and all the intervention in Guatemala/Chile etc. less likely. Venezuela is the best example of that. In the old days the USA would have arranged to get rid of Maduro, Morales, etc. Now either it can't or it doesn't care to. Probably the biggest barrier are Chinese interests.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-14-2020 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
I've seen this idea posted a few times - but is it because of the current President/administration, an overall shifting of US policy/learning from mistakes over the last 20 years, or a shifting of global relations overall? I don't claim to have the answer myself, but I observe that you place the previous administration in the "second best" tier which implies it was better in this regard than Bush's administration (LDO), and now the current administration has taken another step. Makes a trend seem like a possibility. Small sample size in number of administrations, but a lengthy time period.
The assertion that Trump never started anything is just wrong.

Trump generates so much noise people forget he assassinated an Iranian general, expanded the bombings of Somalia, and bombed the living Jebus out of Yemen.

This is part of his bullshit. He just firehouses the media with so much bullshit he gets people to forget stuff that he doesn’t want to talk abou.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-15-2020 , 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
The assertion that Trump never started anything is just wrong.

Trump generates so much noise people forget he assassinated an Iranian general, expanded the bombings of Somalia, and bombed the living Jebus out of Yemen.

This is part of his bullshit. He just firehouses the media with so much bullshit he gets people to forget stuff that he doesn’t want to talk abou.
The issues with Iran, Yemen, and Somalia all pre-dated Trump.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-15-2020 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucleardonkey
It runs deeper. The only US president since WWII who didn't either start a war or kill the democratically elected leader of some country is Trump. Obama, Carter and Ford are the next best by this criteria. Trump did less damage abroad in many senses than Kennedy or Clinton.
Trump's impulse to not go to war is something I appreciate about him, but I think you may have forgotten about COVID and trump's putrid and ineffectual response to it, when you wrote this post.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-15-2020 , 03:49 PM
I didn't write anything about domestic politics at all. So your response is beside the point and missing the point.

Part of the problem is Trump specifically, part of the problem is the whole US culture
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-17-2020 , 09:40 PM
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-17-2020 , 10:05 PM
Bidens out there preaching unity and refusing to go after this lowlife criminal scumbags. crossing my finger that Trump actually pulls it off and further exposes how much of a sham this country is.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-17-2020 , 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
Bidens out there preaching unity and refusing to go after this lowlife criminal scumbags.
Who?
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 12:54 AM


It never stops being funny that none of this is going to work but Republicans are still happy to light any remaining dignity (and, you know, democratic norms!) on fire on Trump's way out just to show Dear Leader that they were loyal to the end
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Who?
Trump and the rest of these criminals.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 02:08 AM
How can he go after them? President-elects don't have that power AFAIK.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
Biden is only up to 50.9% of the vote total, so not sure where you get 5% from.

You're also seemingly ignoring the fact that his opponent was Donald Trump, possibly the most actively hated man in American history. How much worse do you think future GOP candidates can get? Name one who could get the nomination and be more of a PR disaster than Trump.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend like this was a great success for the democrats, I won't stop you. Biden won what could be argued as a squeaker, given the circumstances, and that should frighten you if you're on team Blue.
I agree with what you said. Also, what should be frightening, is the number of "people" in this country that need to be deprogrammed from Fox, OAN, Newsmax, etc.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 08:38 AM
I think what many people are missing here is that if Trump's election fraud claims are lies, that is equally (perhaps more) criminal, and quite frankly, treasonous in undermining our elections. It is quite unfortunate that Biden seems to be taking the path of just forgive and forget.

If I could clue in Biden for a moment....the 80 million people that voted for you will not forgive or forget what this animal has done to this country for the past 4 years. He should be fully prosecuted by all available means for any crimes he did commit. If Biden just lets this all go that would be a complete travesty.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 06:34 PM






Someday there's going to be a great comedy, probably made by Adam McKay, about the legal efforts taking place right now
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
How can he go after them? President-elects don't have that power AFAIK.
hes head of the Justice Department and he can appoint people that prioritize it.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote
11-18-2020 , 11:35 PM
Even Alito doesn't want to deal with Trump's BS in PA.
Will Trump's sad refusal to concede damage democracy around the world? Quote

      
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