Indeed!

In fact, he was convicted of murder less than ten years after that incident. He was the chair of my department when I became a student at the university in 1978. I was briefly his reader around 1979-1980.

He was convicted of murdering the husband of his lover.

Correct, and this shows why, using the definitions given so far in this thread, many/most black people are also racist.

I do get upset by some of the liberal BS saying "everyone is racist", or "if you're not anti-racist, you're racist", that kind of thing.
Then they say that every member of a privileged class needs to study themselves and figure out where the racism is, and work on getting rid of it, etc. Sure, nearly everyone has some at least subliminal prejudices, as shown by some of the word association tests. However, in those studies, even most black people are shown to have prejudices against blacks! Does this mean these black people are white supremacists?

But if someone has no power in society, which includes the majority of people most of the time, it really doesn't matter what they think about different races. At one time, probably in college, I was taught the difference between prejudice and racism as basically this: a prejudice is something a person holds in their mind, racism is something implemented by a system. More recently I rarely even hear the word prejudice anymore, but I think this could be a useful distinction.

The way the left has been framing things recently only serves to push away people; no one with good intentions wants to be told they are racist (even if they are a little bit racist). The crazy comments like in the article linked earlier where the woman said colorblindness was racism do the same things. IMO they're only hurting their cause and furthering the culture wars and the division in this country. Of course the right is actively fueling the culture wars in other crazy ways, but that's not a good reason to make people feel they have to choose between one crazy position and another. If they have to, they're probably just going to choose the crazy that more people around them (and who look like them) seem to have chosen.

Ya it is actually super cruddy. There's definitely some opportunity for drama over in the Philosophy Dept ime too

It's been said that in-fighting in Humanities Departments is so incredibly vicious because the stakes are so low.

Saying something racist is a racist action

Sure; in the same sense that thinking something racist is a racist action.

So, what word (or words) would you use to distinguish someone thinking racist thoughts from someone giving the finger (for example) to a particular black person because of their skin color?

Or, what word (or words) would you use to distinguish someone telling their wife that they hate black people from someone giving the finger to a particular black person because of their skin color?

A sprinkling of animus/disdain is both a necessary AND sufficient component before words should be considered racist. A good example might be the words of Jimmy the Greek compared to those of Al Companis. "Inferiority" has little to do with it. When they made Jackie Robinson use the delivery entrance of a swanky hotel in order to attend the dinner in his honor, it wasn't because they thought he was inferior.

But what if, for example, someone doesn't dislike or wish ill on black people, but he doesn't think they're as smart as white people, so he won't hire them?

Anyone, nowadays, who thinks that the difference in average smartness is so high that it isn't worth giving an individual a chance to prove himself almost certainly has animus.

My take on this subject could be discussed in more detail but I don't have the inclination to do so. I think I have pretty much gotten my point across.

Yup, he seems to have made up positions whole cloth.

Do large groups of people have subscious bias towards those who look like them/ their kids,, come from the same places, have similar upbringings and stories when it comes to otherwise 'qualified' candidates? Can growing up in the same part of Ireland or Europe more generally and your story mirroring the interviewers engender a subscious (or conscious) desire to 'give this kid a break' and see that person hired?

Of course and no one can deny that.


If you were to take every S.America refugee trying to get in to the US right now and could magically make half of them all citizens and in charge of hiring as Managers, would it be a shock that they would tend to hire their other countrymen and refugees who were all also legal and needing work, disproportionately? That they would have a bias to give those people a break?


Some people have an enormously naive view of race, and how bias play into it either because they think 'i am not impacted thus no one is' or they are making the arguments to protect the status quo because they like the status quo.

What about a practical focus though.

Lets say you are white europeans during colonial days. You march into a country, we'll call Canada and find an indigenous people or another race. You attack them, relocate them to most inhospitable parts of the country, and take their lands and resources. they live in squaller, trying to survive but are slowly being wiped out, both bodily and in spirit.

Your people, the occupying white Europeans, now enjoy some distance from the initial acts, and are far more civilized due to the enjoyment of wealth and safety and feel they should make some amends to the indigenous and try to help them out of their position.


Do you object to that specific focus? That THIS society can make targeted programs for those specific people to try and get them out of the hole they put them in?


Is your view something like 'while the initial wrong was horrible, we would only be doing a second wrong by use any race/culture/specific people based approach to fix it. Best to leave it as it is and hope they can work their own way out?'

As a POC i can say i do not consider something racist if it does not involve animus. Ignorance alone is not racism, imo if you will never act with any animus towards anyone you deal with.

I feel the word racism is done a disservice and loses meaning when so many on the left use it for almost every offense, such as former Toronto Rob Ford, trying to compliment Asian but mistaking calling them Orientals.

He was decried as racist despite his clear attempt to complement because he was ignorant of the change in language.

He had a ton of faults but when you label a guy racist who clearly not only likes POC, but from all appearances seems to enjoy being with them more than people of his own race, due to a mistake, it really then damages the ability to label a real 'racist' appropriately.

We've seen it play out in policing.

When you hire a bunch of people with animus/bias towards POC in policing, you get statistics that show widely disparate, stop, search, charge, even when other factors (middle class, good neighbourhood) are normed out.

The naive amongst us see that and think 'not everyone does that' and then applies that to a view that it is not an issue at all. And that is just silly. People have negative and positive biases. When looking at cops as a whole they are more likely to let you off a ticket if they connect with you at some level conscious or subscious. The desire to 'give you a break' increases or decreases when you 'relate' to the person on some level.

Gleaned it from here

Anyway don't mind me and pray continue.

No. Even though I have a lot of libertarian tendencies I'm fundamentally a utilitarian, and there's nothing about helping people in less fortunate circumstances that goes against that. But there's also not a need to frame such help in terms of race. I still will take my reparations money though.

Ok. so you are all for race/identity based help as long as you don't use the words.

Is that right?

No. I'm for help for people in need

...based on race based lines where appropriate.

Programs specifically designed and targeted to uplift those 'indigenous harmed by XYZ prior policy'.

You have no objection to a specific focus on making some form of help or reparation to that specific group, but you just don't want it called race/ethnicity based.

Give you window dressing and you are all good with it but you need the window dressing.

I mean given the choice between living in a society that helps people, versus living in a society that helps people based on race, clearly one approach is better than the other. There's no need to provide window dressing.

But i think given a vote you would vote against or argue against a raced/ethnicity based compensation plan but if they can dress it up in a way that just does not say it that way, you fully support it. Right?

I will vote for whichever special interest gives me the most money if I had a vote.

This is a good example of racism. You make up a definition of racism and then explain how it doesn’t apply to you

Do you think they made him use the delivery entrance because he was superior


I have an easy one for you guys

Do you think the government should be allowed to kidnap people illegally without repercussions ?

So if you know saying things are racist. And your friends do it.

Why did you say they aren’t racist? Are you delusional or something?

If you hate on people based on skin color or ethnicity you are being racist.

If you are a class of people that was made up to serve other humans, an ethnicity made to be sex slaves and robot workers, then it’s fine to be racist against the people that made you


Is it ok for the Irish to hate the British? Of course

Is it ok for Palestinians to hate the Israeli govt? Of course

Is it ok for natives to hate the US govt? Of course

Is it racist? Possibly. Are they in any position of power relative to the oppressing class? No

Sorry but no it is not. Do you think there would be no good people in that class?

Not ok
Ok

Ok
Governments and people are two different things.