[US Politics] Why do people support liberal policy when the results are poor? - Page 7 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...ornia-00117762

I will say it is wild times in libtardia when the ostensibly progressive governor of California is asking the right wing Supreme Court to over-rule the inanity of the Ninth Circuit.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 08:02 AM

#152

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by lozen

California is a total mess. The fact that you literally make many crimes as misdemeanors is a joke and no cash bail system is not working

Retail theft is what is driving many companies out of California. Sadly Dems do not believe in personal responsibility and believe in criminal rights over victim rights

This article tells how Tractor Supply dealt with it.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/comp...6d76973e&ei=36

Do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or nah

Quote

09-25-2023 , 10:17 AM

#153

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or nah

If you're guilty than you're guilty whether it's proven or not.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 10:20 AM

#154

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunyain

So according to you, the buses from Texas are only a small part of the issue, and despite this Adams bringing up Abbott specifically (and no one else) in this speech is perfectly ok. But I am the one being disingenuous?

So given the issue of buses from the poor Republican border towns to the wealthy, morally superior blue cities isn't really an issue, you dont support President Biden (or whoever the puppet master is) passing any laws to keep the immigrants in Texas. And you are perfectly ok with busing immigrants from poor border towns with little resources to resource rich (and morally superior) blue cities?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

If you're guilty than you're guilty whether it's proven or not.

Do you believe in legally innocent until proven guilty or nah

Quote

09-25-2023 , 10:27 AM

#155

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Do you believe in legally innocent until proven guilty or nah

Of course

Quote

09-25-2023 , 10:44 AM

#156

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Of course

So you support SFs policy of releasing legally innocent people?

Quote

09-25-2023 , 11:03 AM

#157

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

So you support SFs policy of releasing legally innocent people?

Not all of them.

If someone is accused of murder I wouldn't support them being released if a judge finds that there is sufficient evidence for the case to go to trial.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 12:58 PM

#158

Dunyain

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 2,975

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Not all of them.

If someone is accused of murder I wouldn't support them being released if a judge finds that there is sufficient evidence for the case to go to trial.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-gang-me...223132186.html

--This post reminded me of this story that was buzzing around Twitter recently. I read a few articles on it and still am not sure what "being free on bond" means in this case. Was this person convicted of murder and basically let out on probation? Or was he just accused of murder and the Texas courts never bothered to even take it to trial, and just essentially sentenced him to probation without a trial?

Quote

09-25-2023 , 01:21 PM

#159

lozen

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 24,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or nah

Yes but there are crimes that deserve no cash bail and there are crimes that do not. As well the evidence can dictate bail

Take for example this bust on $750,000 worth of Fentanyl bail should not be an option

https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...-cashless-bail

Quote

09-25-2023 , 01:51 PM

#160

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Do you believe in legally innocent until proven guilty or nah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Of course

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

So you support SFs policy of releasing legally innocent people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Not all of them.

If someone is accused of murder I wouldn't support them being released if a judge finds that there is sufficient evidence for the case to go to trial.

ok so you dont believe in innocent until proven guilty. Unless you believe in arresting innocent people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lozen

so do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or not? its binary, yes or no.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 02:04 PM

#161

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,995

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Not all of them.

If someone is accused of murder I wouldn't support them being released if a judge finds that there is sufficient evidence for the case to go to trial.

As a leftist, are you at all worried about giving the police state unprecedented power to lock up citizens on mere suspicion?

Quote

09-25-2023 , 02:05 PM

#162

lozen

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 24,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

ok so you dont believe in innocent until proven guilty. Unless you believe in arresting innocent people?

so do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or not? its binary, yes or no.

Yes I do even for Trump and Biden

Quote

09-25-2023 , 02:48 PM

#163

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

ok so you dont believe in innocent until proven guilty. Unless you believe in arresting innocent people?

so do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or not? its binary, yes or no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

As a leftist, are you at all worried about giving the police state unprecedented power to lock up citizens on mere suspicion?

Are people in this thread arguing that people accused of murder should be able to be free until convicted? Is that the argument from you guys?

Quote

09-25-2023 , 02:52 PM

#164

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

ok so you dont believe in innocent until proven guilty. Unless you believe in arresting innocent people?

so do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or not? its binary, yes or no.

I already said people who are guilty are guilty even if only they themselves know that they committed a crime. I could go right now put some non native plants in a waterway and no one would find out and I'd still be guilty.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 02:54 PM

#165

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

As a leftist, are you at all worried about giving the police state unprecedented power to lock up citizens on mere suspicion?

You should learn about the Patriot act.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 02:58 PM

#166

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

But are there some circumstances where bail should not be granted?

Quote

09-25-2023 , 02:59 PM

#167

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,995

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

You should learn about the Patriot act.

I’m against that as well.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 03:02 PM

#168

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

I’m against that as well.

Ok but are there crimes where a person should have to be in jail while they await trial?

Quote

09-25-2023 , 03:22 PM

#169

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

As a leftist, are you at all worried about giving the police state unprecedented power to lock up citizens on mere suspicion?

Yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Are people in this thread arguing that people accused of murder should be able to be free until convicted? Is that the argument from you guys?

Innocent people shouldn’t be in jail for any reason ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Ok but are there crimes where a person should have to be in jail while they await trial?

No, they can give them a police body guard or five if that’s a concern

Quote

09-25-2023 , 03:28 PM

#170

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Yes

Innocent people shouldn’t be in jail for any reason ever.

No, they can give them a police body guard or five if that’s a concern

So let's say I go and shoot up your family, and live stream it on Facebook, I'm arrested, I plead not guilty.... Your argument is that I get a police body guard until I'm convicted?

Quote

09-25-2023 , 03:51 PM

#171

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by lozen

Yes I do even for Trump and Biden

Yes but only one of those people committed his crimes live on national television and on a recorded telephone line with state officials.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 03:55 PM

#172

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,995

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

But are there some circumstances where bail should not be granted?

Yes.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 04:07 PM

#173

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,345

"Reasonable bail" is a funny (i.e. very relative) thing. SBF had his bail set at $250m, which is the highest bail ever set, but is nowhere enough to guarantee his appearance if he in fact stole billions of dollars. Your average person is probably not making a bail of $50k+ cash / $500k property.

Quote

09-25-2023 , 05:22 PM

#174

PointlessWords

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 4,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

So let's say I go and shoot up your family, and live stream it on Facebook, I'm arrested, I plead not guilty.... Your argument is that I get a police body guard until I'm convicted?

Yea ofc. I don’t believe in jailing innocent people and I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Most Americans have zero dollars in savings