I'm being facetious while answering, but every instance I've seen in the media, the person changed their name to reflect the gender they always were. Jim doesn't transition to a woman, which he always was. Rather his body transitioned. If she does change her name, then you had better be careful not to use the old one, or else, you are dead..... naming.

I do feel like once I was asked for my pronouns but I don't remember the circumstances too well since it was in like 2015 before it became the thing that is today.

But there is no chance that I would able able to resist the urge to troll.

"Well for 3rd person nominative you can use whatever you want...
In the accusative you can also use whatever you want
And in the genitive you can also use whatever you want.
Generally though when talking directly to me you're going to want to use the standard 2nd person pronouns"....or something like that.

anecdotal lol samples size but the ones i knew all had clean severs and they said that was standard since it's hard to be a dude when you're surrounded by people who knew you as a woman for 20 years - ie imagine how much easier elliot page's life would be if he wasn't famous pre-transition

and yes they usually change names, kinda weird to go through surgery and hormone therapy yet still keep a name from the old gender

This is a silly question. No one needs to someone's race or religion in order to understand how that person wants to be addressed.

Right, so seems like pronouns should be pretty obvious minus whatever percent of the population goes by they/them.

That's sort of my point. I tend to think about these things from a practical perspective because I don't care much about the signaling for the sake of signaling.

Except I have a policy of not interacting with Jainests.

You could accidentally hurt some bacteria if you did and that wouldn't be good.

Pronouns are about a lot more than transgender people. There are people who are non-binary, or have other reasons they prefer pronouns other than those one would assume - and not always they/them. I'm not saying I fully understand it a lot of the time, but it doesn't bother me if someone prefers pronouns for reasons I can't fathom (not implying it bothers you either).

I'm not a fan of companies requiring all employees to use pronouns, or people making others feel bad for not doing so, for two reasons. First of all, I'd be concerned that for some people, it will have exactly the opposite of the desired effect - those who are coming to terms with who they are, but aren't ready to "come out" yet, and now are put in an awkward spot. Perhaps these people are rare or non-existent; as a cis male I'm speaking from a place of ignorance on this. And secondly, I think that just builds resentment of the whole thing, and also leads to simplistic takes like this:

Sure, there's an element of that, but I think for most people there's some amount of care for others. For a company or organization, doing it purely for "virtue signaling" reasons is possibly more likely to be a net negative than positive, because there are people who buy into all the culture war nonsense that reflexively look down on people for sharing pronouns.

I say all of this as someone who has never seen the need to share my pronouns (but would have no issue with doing so if it made sense), and I also interact with numerous people who do. Share them, don't share them, doesn't bother me, and I can't imagine why it would bother anyone else.

"it's not about virtue signalling it's about having virtues"

Gotcha.

I guess that's meant to be mockery, which is kind of sad.

I was just summarizing your post for those who like simple summations. No mockery involved.

If that's the case, my apologies for the incorrect assumption.

I'll add that I'd go with something more like:

"it's not just about virtue signaling, it's also about having virtues"

equally as silly as "needing" someone's pronouns when they are the standard one

Lol. I tried to use Chat GPT to look at some Chinese hands and quickly realized it was garbage and has no clue how to play Chinese.

People aren't addressed in the third person.

the amount of fainting people do about pronouns is hilarious.

it takes 5 seconds not to be an ******* and refer to someone as they prefer to be referred to, even if it's behind their back.

You dont use pronouns to address someone, other than "you".

ChatGPT making up citations is a known issue and has nothing to do with this conversation on gender. Also, who is trusting ChatGPT to tell us facts?

There are a lot of people who have ambiguous names. And over the years more originally male names have become mostly given to females.

I'm undergoing a regular medical treatment with a medical assistant whose name is "Finn" and whose business card says 'they /them'.
They appear to be a slightly butch female and probably hasn't had gender surgeries. But anyway, I certainly couldn't guess a gender from that first name and it's probably not the name given them at birth.

I just tried to do that correctly, but it still just feels so wrong to refer to a single person as "they". And I also n don't get why 'they /them' needs to be given. Wouldn't just 'they' be enough? I don't think anyone uses 'they /him'.

Finn could definitely be a name given by some hipster parents in Portland.

I think it's Jainist, but I would prefer to interact with someone of that creed than any other; I know they're not going to try to kill me.

We kinda need the accusative case though in English.

Sure we would use the 'them' in the right context, but it follows logically from 'they'. Giving one or the other should be sufficient.

It's the principle of the matter. If someone wants to upend their whole life as they know it and face seemingly endless stigma and straight up abuse, then why should I, a straight male, be bothered to change my vocabulary. I mean, hetero males have it hard enough as is