I can never understand the people who think it's a choice to be gay.

Assuming the people thinking that are straight, this must mean they feel that being straight was a choice that they made too.

Though it is not my area of expertise, I think there is a subset of people who, for various reasons, have decided that those of the opposite sex who attract them are slightly preferable but out of their league whereas if they allow the possibility of a same sex relationship, they have more choices. Just a guess.

Technically you are still wrong. "Pride" would be the wrong word. And I don't think it is just semantics. I believe there are people who would take your side if a better word was chosen.

according to this poll 4 in 10 think it's a choice here.

"Four-in-ten Americans (42%) said that being gay or lesbian is “just the way some choose to live,” while a similar share (41%) said that “people are born gay or lesbian,” according to the most recent Pew Research Center poll on the issue, conducted in 2013."

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...eople-are-gay/

I have also never understood people who say they are proud to be something they had no control over.

Proud that you are the first in your family to graduate from college...

Sure, go you!

Proud that your family came from a particular country...

Huh?

Can I start an unmarried straight fornicators pride group? There are religious people who tell me my sexual practices are sinful.

today david learns about the existence of bisexual people

rickroll, chillrob, what do you think about this poll?

Why say "pride"? In a vacuum it's not an ideal word choice, but when for generations it's been something that society said you should be ashamed of it seems to be a reasonable way to express the feeling.

This!

That Russian hockey player made it clear in his statements that he had no animus toward homosexuals. But as a Christian, he is called to love everyone but at the same time to not appear to be endorsing/supporting/enabling behavior his faith doesn't believe in.

That must be the missing 11th commandment, "thou must be careful about what one is supporting with thy behavior"

Well said.

I've thought this for a long time.

The idea of being proud based on something one had no control over is the basis of probably most racism. White Supremacists are proud of their race, which gives them (in their minds) justification to hate non-whites.

I think it's the 530th commandment, actually.

(There are over 600 commandments in the Bible.)

The Woke Mob shouldn't have any problem with that. (But I'll let them speak for themselves on that; I could be wrong.)

incredible story

It's fine to express that feeling of pride until the cows come home*, but those who don't have that feeling shouldn't be forced to act like they do at a sporting event by having to wear a Pride Sticker.

(As an aside, when are the cows coming home? )

I do find it surprising, wouldn't have expected such a big number

however, the last decade or so, there's been a lot of "sexuality is a spectrum" research that's hit the zeitgeist, combine this with fewer gay and bisexual men remaining closeted because it's a far safer and more accepting environment than in the past and I can see how people could get confused like David

I think people are seeing more gay people today and thinking it's the result of grooming whereas I think there's alway been that many gay people but they before but they got in hetero marriages to raise families and remained in the closet, many of which never acted upon their gay desires

However, I also think that some people who think being gay is a choice while also believing they were born gay and they just prefer those people go back to being in the closet

For example, I do think that some kids are just confused regarding genders and are somewhat groomed into the role they take. The most obvious example of this is you can get your children to believe basically anything if a trusted adult is telling them that is the case. How else can we explain all the extremely diverse religions that all have a lot of wacko ideas pushed forward. Take away the sanctimony of religion and it's suddenly a laughably stupid series of events. People turning into salt, walking on water, etc etc. If millions of children can be convinced that 2,000 years ago a jew could turn water into wine and we should pray to him because he loves us all then you can certainly do some inception with your son who happens to like playing with dolls that he can be a girl if he better feels that. children of an age where we don't trust them to choose their own diets or clothing and will happily tell you they are a dinosaur hearing from their teachers and parents that "you could be a girl if you feel that way" could grow up with that notion and just run with it. No I have no issues with that. They can do whatever makes them happy. But I feel like a lot of those children are not trans or non-binary anymore without this input than they would naturally discover buddhism or catholicism if not raised that way as well.

A good 5%+ of the women in their twenties I see on the dating apps I'm on are straight women who are looking for men - but they will say they are non-binary or put they/them as pronouns, etc etc. They are still straight women who were born women with xx chromosomes who are attracted to xy men. But sometimes they feels a little gender fluid. Which is pretty absurd to me.

I 100% believe that people are born gay or staight. I do believe that in some very extreme cases people are genuinely not mentally the gender which they were born. But I think the majority are just going with it because they were raised this way.

My sister and brother in law are both high school science teachers. They've been instructed to tell their students what their pronouns are and ask the students and remember what their pronouns are as well. Fact they teach science is very important too because in biology, sex is a big subject and they always get pushback whenever they teach these subjects from their students to which they need to respond with "we're not talking about genders which is a spectrum but sex with a scientific designation"

my nieces and nephews who are all <12 years old are all asked at school and by doctors during checkups if they are a boy or a girl - again emphasizing that it's whatever they want it to be

Personally I think sexuality is, like most other personality traits, based on a combination of nature and nurture. I find it unlikely there is much choice involved for most people, but I know some people say it was a choice for them and I wouldn't try to tell them differently.

But I don't think it matters in terms of rights why someone has any particular sexuality. They should be treated the same regardless if their sexuality was chosen or not.

If someone says the "gay lifestyle" is a choice, then sure, they're right.
All lifestyles are a choice, but that's not the same as sexual orientation.

Someone who is homosexual could choose to marry someone of the opposite sex, or to live alone and not have sex with anyone. But they certainly shouldn't feel forced to do either of those things.

This last part is pretty out there.
Especially with doctors. If someone who has female reproductive organs but considers themselves to be a man goes to the doctor and gets a prostate exam instead of a pap smear, it's not going to be good for preventing cancer.

I always thought it was supposed to be rude to ask someone's gender.
But now I guess we're supposed to do that, so as not to be rude?
Asking someone's pronouns is just a proxy for asking their gender.

I hope Congress passes a reparations bill for African-Americans.

Then, I can self-identify as African-American, right?

If I can self identify my gender, why not my race? Serious question that deserves a serious answer.

yeah even my super liberal sister that has repeatedly suggested i add my pronouns to my linkedin account thought it was a step too far when the doctor asked her daught that this fall at her checkup

I need to find a way to game this self-identification thingy. (Only half-joking).

hold your horses, I got something for you, and after you read it, take your time, I wonder if anything changes in your beliefs.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...been-straight/
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/01/u...e-changed.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/st...=117465&page=1
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14567650/

Initially it wasn't clear if you are saying that he is mistaken in believing there are people who are not innately bisexual, but choose a bisexual lifestyle for other reasons, or if you think what he is suggesting is what bisexual people actually are, i.e. straight people who simply elect to broaden their options of prospective sexual partners. Subsequent posts suggest that you feel it was the former. I don't think he is unaware of the possibility of genuine bisexuality, and I also agree with him that such a subset of people do exist. I also think that some people who describe themselves as bi-curious are not genuinely bisexual. And because of those two factors, i.e. broadening one's options and experimentation, it really can be hard for to me to simply accept with full confidence that any one bisexual person is innately so the same way I can with people who say that they are gay.

I think that there is a corollary here between how you question the authenticity of young children electing to be transgender and DS's perceived subset of inauthentic homosexuality, so it is counterintuitive to me that you would be so dismissive of his judgement on that matter.

You are basically repeating ganstaman's point. And again I'll say it is pushing the point too far.

Everyone should Just change the expression to "Gay is OK" and stop arguing with me.