If you knew all this, why were you asking utterly basic questions like what the words mean?
But thank you for bringing these perspectives up, it is important that politics forum have a space to be able to combat this kind of transphobia that is all to present in society, particularly given the spew of bills being passed right now to restrict trans people. Personally I wouldn't choose the moderation thread for being the place for that to happen and would suggest some type of containment thread on trans issues instead, but the moderators work in mysterious ways here.

Wait, what, I'm a transphobe now?

Im not repeating theology in any way shape or form.

Its called FREE market capitalism for a reason.

Its taken as a given that free market capitalism wants less regulation, why do you think that the motivation for less regulation suddenly and abruptly stops in forms of social organisation?

You are really going to argue that free market capatalism wants less regulation, and that this want for less regulation has some magical boundary?

If so, that's you magically thinking not me.

Its an absolutely sound and robust intellectual unpacking of the logics of capitalism and simply dismissing it out of hand is you being theological.

Amsterdam is how capitalism would organise society unchecked say in comparison to an Amish community that organises itself on traditional values etc.

Dude stop with the strawmanning, just try to argue against words actually used, try it one time.

Where do I laude the Greeks?

I can state the historical facts of their technological and scientific understanding v how many angles on a pin middle ages without lauding them.

I was not the one who named an entire historical epoch on the rediscovery of their ideas, but again, if I point out the historical fact that period was called The Renaissance that is not me lauding the Greeks.

If I call a blue sky blue, am I lauding it? Of course not.

Yes, there was a lot of slavery in ancient times, quite a lot of it in fairly recent contemporary times, but its irrelevant because I never argued that slavery was a universal good across history.

Yes people have sex with slaves, that is true of all orientations. To try to reduce homosexuality in ancient times to just basically rape of slaves, is well, LOLOL gonna ignorant again.

My god, the mere existence of transgender people just wrecks the conservative brain.

No no, I made a comment about LOLOL that is attributable to eskatore (or whatever his name is) but hasn't been expressed by LOLOL, so I edited it out.

His question remains though. Transpeople can have an option but heteros/cis can't, least they want to be called transphobe endlessly by idiots and harassed non stop by the outraged.

You and your gimmick account can have whatever option [sic] you want, but if it is transphobic it is obviously completely correct to label is transphobic.

Yes you are, because you believe adults should have consent before PP goes somewhere.

Yeah but once again, you outraged morons are not the authority on morality/ethics. I can come up with actual trans people who agree with me, in both that you should disclose before hand and that it's not transphobic to have the preference that leads to trans exclusion in ones own sex life.

Also you can't have those opinions(transphobic ones), you will get banned for them. The reason I'm not banned is likely because unlike you and co, the mods have atleast half a brain cell, and have read my opinions as non transphobic. (Evidenced by the fact that the transphobic note on my "gimmick" ban was walked back)

I also must reiterate it's really scummy for you all to keep calling me transphobic, there isn't even consensus in the community you are championing for on my stance being transphobic or not and you are lumping me in with people who clearly openly hate them/find them disgusting/unnatural. Once again how can you demand that transphobes face severe social penalties but then sling the word around so easily? Wtf is wrong with you people?

Funny that this thread is now hosting debates that would have occurred on the banned threads!

Sort of, but they keep calling for the banning of people under the guise of transphobia so it is a moderation issue as well. Have you seen what they called me transphobic for/want me banned for? Mods can not be influenced by these maniacs.

The standard tactic among dishonest interlocutors is to say something (usually dumb), and then when their counterparty responds, say NO NO NO NO SEE I NEVER SAID THAT, YOU"RE JUST MAKING THAT UP.

In your case, its your repeated appeal to 'strawmanning.

In your own words:

From your characterization of the ancient Greeks as 'more civilized' as societies that came later (who banned the things we're discussing) I then made a totally logical inference about your opinion of ancient greek society. When you were made to answer for your opinion, made entirely on your own terms, in your own words, using historical context you convienently ignored (or would otherwise rapidly weaponize yourself to discredit anyone who took a similar position; for example, if I said "man, cultural life in 1950's America sure looked good", there's a 100% chance you would say this was wrong because something-something Rosa Parks, or whatever) you said NO NO NO SEE THAT'S JUST A STRAWMAN.

Its not a strawman.
To cite an example of a society that was highly permissive of homosexuality and civilized, you cited an ancient civilization that was quite keen on sodomizing their enslaved houseboys.

I would maintain that is not a civil society, by any modern standards- including the very same modern standards that hold a man in a dress is 'a woman'- regardless how technologically out-of-context and surprising the antikythera mechanism is.

If you claim a blue sky is an exmaple of a 'nice day', that would be a more apt comparison.

You cited a society that kept/raped slaves as a matter of standard culture practice the exemplar of 'civilization' because they allowed gays (and had well decorated pottery?)

The word 'ignorant' is literally an intellectual safe space with you people.

Except you were not banned, and broadly speaking the mods were very generous at letting transphobic comments remain in the trans thread, something I was fine with.

I didn't call you transphobic, nor did I call for you to be banned. I would FAR prefer the trans thread to remain open and lightly/zero moderated so people can express their transphobic views than to have the thread closed down. The only thing I was surprised you were not banned for is for openly using a gimmick account, although even that I didn't say in the thread.

One of the big reasons for a trans containment thread is because various trans issues would come up in thread after thread after thread, so it made a lot of sense to have a containment thread for them. This is appropriate given how crucially important trans issues are to society right now.

You're welcome to just ignore being called transphobic. That's what I would do. Because, ya know, I'm not a transphobe. Ever hear the old adage about he that doth protest too much?

But you are clearly strawmanning, sorry, but the cap perfectly fits your head, and you have to wear it.

I said the Greeks were more civilised than the Middle Ages.

So leaving that very important element out of my argument you are again arguing against something I never said.

e.g. Clear cut non debatable strawmanning by you.

Also Slavery existed in and well past the middle ages.

Which of course involved plenty of heterosexual rape and of course homosexual rape.

Or do you think homosexual rape stopped in the Middle ages?

Catholic church say hi btw.

So nice try, but you are the one being absolutely dishonest here.

Of course because you have no argument and been caught with your pants completely down and having no understanding of history and its process.

They're not 'crucially important'.
They're a running joke.
The left's adopting them as 'crucially important' is why the issue keeps coming up; because you guys are so far out into some weird, delusional left field and detached from reality, that issue becomes the perfect touchstone of how delusional you guys have become and a great example to cite, when discrediting your belief system.

That trans thread really opened my eyes to how visceral and obsessed the right has become on this topic. Dudes were completely losing their mind over the most inconsequential ****, constantly inventing wild fantasies about trans women destroying America.

These are your coping mechanisms, for having said something dumb. We can disregard them, but they're funny to see.
Normally you'd just be saying "ignorant racist" but since that was preemptively mocked and you'd look foolish saying it in light of that, you're reduced to procliaming yourself the victor.

You're not.

For a guy who says "ignorant of history" as an accusation, do I really need to break down why this, as a generalization, is moronic?
Seriously? Because I will, say the word, but perhaps you want to walk that back...

Of course it did, but your citing a society that was so peculiarly keen on it as being the exemplar of 'civilization' is super telling.
My guess is that, in spite of your saying "IGNORANT Y U NO KNOW HISTORY, BRO!!" the fact of the matter is, you aren't really that versed on that particular history, either- like, if we sat in a real time setting where Google wasn't available and you were asked questions about ancient Greek history, it would be revealed that you only know a few superficial things- so when you cited that as the example of 'civilization', you didn't realize it came with other baggage that you probably didn't want to answer for, in the context of homosexual permissiveness and its role in a culture?

Like, this is you sticking your foot in your mouth but doubling down with more and more word salad in the hopes that those reading along won't bother to dissect it all and come to the obvious conclusion?

Now say 'ignorant' and 'strawman'.

A culture that is responsible for us having the scientific method is more civilised than the middle ages that argued about how many angels on a pin.

It seems weird to complain about the mods when they didn't ban you, despite all your transphobic posts, and instead closed the thread on trans issues because they were tired of dealing with people like you. You won! You helped get the thread closed! So I wouldn't complain about mod treatment if I were you.

In a debate about sexual values inherent across history, I would be calling you a racist?

Like I know you want to try lots of obvious to five year old semantic tricks to avoid being called out for strawmanning, but its does not get any diamond clear cut than this.

I like your strat though.

You obviously strawman in an super duper lazy and obvious way, then gotcha me by predicting I will correctly call you you our for strawmanning.

You are beyond pathetic.

Just make up things people never said then win against them.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ee.

isn't this a matter of opinion though? is there any scientific basis to it?

in what rational way is this different than them insisting they are reincarnations of famous people or that they are chimpanzee?


there is no "this is wrong" or whatever behind these questions, i legit don't care, if you'll be happier identifying and transforming into another sex then go for it, but i don't see why their desire to do so should be labeled as anything more than their desire

and how on earth is it transphobic to not be up to date on those definitions

if i'm watching baseball and someone asks me which half it is should i call them baseballphobic or just acknowledge they don't watch as much baseball as i do

to definitively state "i am actually a woman born as a man" etc etc seems out of touch with reality and more a coping mechanism rather than "i better identify as a woman or prefer to be a woman"