Since trump was the toughest ever on Russia--I guess if he runs in 24 we can see the lengths putin will go to stop him

In other words you would be willing to agree with my take if I had more authority via credentials? Why not use your naturally endowed faculties for reason given that the subject matter isn't very technical, and then consider both arguments? Because, and I know this is going to blow your mind, intelligence institutions have agendas which put your welfare and the law very far down the list. They constantly break the law and violate the constitution in service of objectives which have never appeared as bullet points on a campaign flyer.

As long as you look at credentials over reasoning they are going to keep manipulating and manipulating you because they know they can tell you anything, no matter how specious the reasoning, and you will go along with it on faith. And when it turns out to be a lie, as just about every allegation about Trump leaked to the media was, they know you will act like it never happened.

It is a fact that the FBI doctored evidence and withheld evidence in investigating Trump, and to that end still found nothing. They cheated and found nothing, so you can't say the just cut a few corners in pursuit of the truth. They are sitting there making things up, making connections that are not justified in the least. They are making up utter nonsense, leaking it to the press, and when the item falls completely apart they just serve you up the next lie, you grinning ear-to-ear between each mouthful.

Why do you keep believing these people when they keep lying to you when it is revealed to you by credentialed sources that they lie to you? Colin Powell pointing out "mobile weapons labs" as a reason to invade Iraq. Of course the premise is absurd, that if Iraq had WMD we are justified in invading. But I know you would need Clockwork Orange level retraining to lodge that thought out of your head. But the mobile biological weapons labs turned out to be like food trucks or something. Ok so just a bad read made in good faith. But would you still believe the good faith thing when it is revealed that Powell fabricated evidence? Bob Woodward cited evidence that Powell actually fabricated evidence to lie us into war. If they will lie about that they will lie about anything. I don't see how someone can live through the Bush administration and then turn around and trust the "credentials" of the intelligence community.

So...... you are a sandwich artist? Is that whole word salad just an effort to evade the question? Let me guess, you have no training, education or practical experience in conducting an investigation.

Deuces, now that you admit your contention does not include any dispute of the Mueller and Senate investigation being properly founded based on the George P information going from UK intel to US Intel, do you understand why even if you think other intel was flawed that would not change the predication being well founded?

By that I am saying, imagine 3 tips go in to the police about a bank robbery. For sake of argument they are BS. But one tip that comes in that is valid and good and it is followed.

You do not invalidate the investigation by pointing at the 3 poor tips as being poor. That is not how it works.

Capice?

you guys have literally been spinning in circles about this with dunces for a week or more now, there is no capice here. just more handwaving, goalpost shifting, and dishonesty. it'd be great if this could die now.

My high level thoughts are:

1) Several people in this thread have argued that the Russian government attempted to influence the 2016 election. No one in this thread has argued that the Russian government was the but for cause of Trump winning the election. No one in this thread has argued that the more baroque allegations related to Russia and Trump are true. I hadn't even heard of 80% of the stuff in that article that either LB or Deuces posted a few days ago. Any attempt to paint any posters in this thread as defenders of the more baroque allegations is just straw-manning.

2) Cuepee is of course correct that you don't judge the appropriateness of an investigation solely by reference to what the investigation uncovers. The correct questions are (i) at the time the decision was made to investigate, were the allegations credible enough and consequential enough to warrant an investigation?; and (ii) was the scope of the investigation reasonable in light of the allegations?

Word salad? Is that your defense of avoiding thinking, calling arguments word salad? If anything other than a few simple short sentences is word salad to you we don't need to be discussing things.

Yup.

And put Trump aside, and I maintain there is no instance, NONE, where intel would come in from the UK or any other intelligence source (ally or foe) that in the midst of a general election someone in one campaign was saying a foreign gov't had info and was using it to try and influence the election, that the US intel would not open a file and investigate that.

There is no instance where they can hand wave it away saying 'without even looking we just don't think it is anything', based on nothing.

It must be investigated. And Deuce and Lucky trying to say 'but what about these other actions or claims' does not change that fact. And i do think it is a fact. It must be investigated.

Bringing it back to Trump, what then further pushed the investigation into ever deeper waters was that so many people in and associated with his campaign all had deep Russian activities and ties they then lied about.

Lying to investigators about such ties will just require them to dig much deeper to ensure they are not compromised. It is not proof they are but it requires more thorough investigation.

Just because I can't definitively say the investigation wasn't properly founded doesn't mean it was. It probably wasn't. It might or might not have been, but the by far more important issue is how the investigation was carried out. You don't want to comment on the investigation itself.

Why do you think intelligence agencies leaked everything specious and negative about Trump but redact the cables which supposedly properly founded the investigation?

We can say it was properly founded.

The George P comment alone makes it properly founded.

Again. Persons 1 -3 go into the police station and give false and specious info about a crime. Person 4 goes in and gives very credible info about a crime.

The investigation that follows is justified by person 4 even if you keep saying 'but what about persons 1-3'.

If you are incapable of understanding that then there is no point trying to go on to any other point.

Yes, it's a word salad because you evaded the question. Nowhere was I asking for more of your specious arguments or hyperbole about the masses bovine thought processes.

Very simply, I was asking if you had any real world experience, training or education in investigation. In part, because it is hard to take your opinions seriously because you seem to lack any clear understanding of how things work in real life and in part because the published findings of a conservative FBI agent who led a group of experienced investigators at the behest of Congress will always be given more weight and credibility than your opinions. If you had any training, education or practical experience conducting investigations, perhaps my low opinion of your lowly opinions would need to be reconsidered.

Now if we were talking about wether you put the mayo on the cheese or the vegetables, your opinions would be more relevant.

It is a little dull for sure. I can't fault either of them for it, though, as this is the riggie thread and I fully expect this kind of thing out of it and I've certainly argued silly things at length here. But it needs a little more crazy in the mix IMO.

Since this thread is going nowhere right now, I'll just add that I believe it is "capiche". Or in Italian, "capisce". But I'll fully admit that while I thought "capice" was wrong, I wasn't confident enough not to Google it. That's not necessarily directed at you, as you were responding to its earlier use.

capice
English translation: do you understand? do you get it?

Italian to English translations [Non-PRO]
Italian term or phrase: capice
Italian

English translation:do you understand? do you get it?
Explanation:
usually in the form of a question; the standard Italian form should be "capisci" (second person, informal) or "capisce" (third person, formal)
In the American form the last vowel is dropped, but in Italian all vowels are pronounced.

Absolutely massive Maricopa fraud appears proven by the canvass conducted by hundreds of volunteers - more than 20x Bidens winning margin, when extrapolated from a statistically significant sample. The canvassers have signed affidavits.

34% of 960 people who the county said didn't vote, when canvassed, said they definitely did vote. These votes appear to have been stolen and thats not all.

This alone translates to between 165k and 180k in Maricopa at a 95% confidence interval.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...ricopa-county/

This is going to court.

What if Putin didn't really care which figurehead voters decide on? Trump didn't even owe his ascension to the existing patronage networks and he still continued with the foreign policies preferred by the Washington consensus.

Putin isn't dumb like us, thinking that who is president of America matters all that much. There is no real correlation between the majority's policy preferences and what actually happens. This is the richest country in the world. We see less rich countries with universal healthcare. The majority is in favor of it. Politicians tell us no like we are a dog caught humping a hot bowl of mash potatoes.

Among the assertions never proven or sufficiently was the Russian preference for Trump to win. It's a reasonable assumption, but even if there even was a preference, the strength of the preference has been way overestimated.

What's the text of the George P comment that properly founded a 3 year investigation that found nothing but made continuous outrageous claims the whole time?

I see someone has picked up the latter of the two wild elections conspiracies so I will give it a rest and wait on that text.

Bingo is back yay, this deuces guy is a real bore. Good to see you.

Some major finding being reported by the GWP. When do you expect this to be filed and submitted to a court? That ad I mean article was hard to read with all the ads, when you think AP wire or another source picks it up.

Yo, bingo, congratulations on introducing me to a brand new experience: being glad to see you.

Before we get into the weeds on Maricopa county, could I please get a few words regarding the hacking symposium?

The hacking symposium, for me, was a dud. Lots of other people didn't feel that way. There were some issues with a raid on a CO election official who the CO SoS claimed had released Dominion Bios passwords online. He didn't release the data he had like he promised. Thats all I was interested in and I wanted to download it and get one of my devs to go through it. Big nothing burger for me...no hard data.

Maricopa County on the other hand, is hard data that has been released. It should result in decertification until they can determine if their data is accurate and which side the alleged fraud favoured.

Right now, they have only matched the County records to the voters, with no idea of the party favoured by the voters whose votes appear to have been not counted according to County records...so its possible these are skewed to Biden, in which case he won by more, but we just don't know at this point. Thats going to take a judge but it's easy to bottom out.

What is a Bios password, and how might one use that?

Yeah, the internet is hard to navigate for me too.

People go to the gateway pundit for news? I thought it was just the young filipino boys or something

Would you care to elaborate on the Bios passwords, bingo?

In my experience, BIOS passwords lock certain basic aspects of the configuration of a machine, the basic input/output system, as it were, and are totally useless remotely because one would have to be sitting locally at a machine to make use of a BIOS password. Mostly because you can only ever input it before the operating system, and by extension, network card drivers ever get loaded into memory. I could, of course, be wrong.

I don't deal with the tech stuff, so your idea about Bios passwords is better than mine.

The full canvass report is on Skillshare, if that makes you feel better Wet work. Who chooses to publish it from there is really beyond the control of the authors...a bit like a Youtube video embed. Other sites have the ability to embed whatever Youtube videos they want.

The internet is a confusing place for me too!

Here is an army intelligence officer and former baseball analyst (Moneyball comes to mind for some reason) going through the big picture. 5 minute video...interesting.

https://rumble.com/vm8ral-seth-keshe...erious-hu.html