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Police brutality and police reform (US) Police brutality and police reform (US)

06-07-2020 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteoBounce
This use of language implies a coercion that you have to voice an already opinion, and fear repercussions (in the form of social stigma) for failure in doing so.
...
If you see all this and don't recognize the beginnings of a totalitarian system of thought, policing itself with the aid of the threat of social ostracization
then you don't know very much about 20th century history.
This development is really concerning.
To be clear, when you're looking at the United States and seeing a totalitarian streak developing that seeks to strip individual thought and replace it with total, unquestionable allegiance to a particular movement...

...you're talking about Black Lives Matter protests???
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06-07-2020 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
To be clear, when you're looking at the United States and seeing a totalitarian streak developing that seeks to strip individual thought and replace it with total, unquestionable allegiance to a particular movement...

...you're talking about Black Lives Matter protests???
That's only one element of it. If you don't support or agree with Kap, you get cancelled. Cancel culture is a thing...
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06-07-2020 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
That's only one element of it. If you don't support or agree with Kap, you get cancelled. Cancel culture is a thing...
The ****?
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06-07-2020 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
To be clear, when you're looking at the United States and seeing a totalitarian streak developing that seeks to strip individual thought and replace it with total, unquestionable allegiance to a particular movement...



...you're talking about Black Lives Matter protests???
I took his OP to mean that the left was jumping on this bandwagon for their political gain but don't really give a **** about any "movement", just being opportunistic.
Or @he could be one of those people that think Soros and co are behind this and it's all part of some "plan". In that case I would need to review my score.
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06-07-2020 , 05:47 PM
Cops washing protesters' feet. Let the healing begin

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/07/white...olina-forgive/
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06-07-2020 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
To be clear, when you're looking at the United States and seeing a totalitarian streak developing that seeks to strip individual thought and replace it with total, unquestionable allegiance to a particular movement...

...you're talking about Black Lives Matter protests???
Yes and no.
To be clear there is of course a legitimate concern that is raised here and the BLM movement is justified in giving a voice to that concern as racial disparities exist and there seems little disagreement on this issue (except from the far right I presume).
But when I look at the way this discourse is handeled, it's focus isn't on making productive changes to adress these disparities (as well as police reform) but rather the proclamation of a rather fatalistic view that the black community is systemically oppressed and actively persecuted by the police.
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06-07-2020 , 06:07 PM
I couldn't imagine doing that unless I had some major guilt for doing some racist **** in my past.
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06-07-2020 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 south
I took his OP to mean that the left was jumping on this bandwagon for their political gain but don't really give a **** about any "movement", just being opportunistic.
Or @he could be one of those people that think Soros and co are behind this and it's all part of some "plan". In that case I would need to review my score.
Not specifically aimed at the left, rather pointing out the obvious that this is about power and very little about empathy.
I think people should be called out for what they are really doing here.
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06-07-2020 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteoBounce
As an outsider (European) looking at the situation I have to say, far more concerning then the utter incompetence of your law enforcement, is the fact that so many who are purporting solidarity are really wolfs in sheep's clothing, clearly using this tragic incident merely for their own gain which is essentially (let's call it by it's real name) their will to power. Be it their political agenda, or their habit of virtue signaling to attest to their group affiliation to gain social status and fulfill their craving to belong somewhere.
If you would live in a free society that is composed of individuals instead of what seems to me a shockingly high number of mass-minded ideologues with no conscious orientation of their own, you would point out these tarantulas for who they really are.
Instead you are essentially fuelling the divide into two opposing political camps and it appears to me as that's just exactly what many people are aiming at. They don't want to stop racism as they so self-righteously proclaim but merely add fuel to the fire. Luckily they are terrible at disguising their resentment and hatred as their true motivation but unfortunately for some reason, and this is really the issue here, you utterly failed making this differentiation.
Yep
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06-07-2020 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 south
What a bunch of p***ies.
This kind of **** reminds me of Waco 1993 when all they had to do was knock on the guy's door and serve a warrant but instead they end up torching the place down. Everything is pulling guns out, cracking skulls and asking questions later.
In 93 with a Dem as prez you had dips**ts like schumer defending this behavior (FBI at Waco) and the right starting militias, calling it a police state but when the deplorables are in charge those same numnuts are defending this type of action and dips**ts like schumer are coming after the cops.
The one consistent is law enforcement being out of control.
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06-07-2020 , 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteoBounce
Yes and no.

To be clear there is of course a legitimate concern that is raised here and the BLM movement is justified in giving a voice to that concern as racial disparities exist and there seems little disagreement on this issue (except from the far right I presume).

But when I look at the way this discourse is handeled, it's focus isn't on making productive changes to adress these disparities (as well as police reform) but rather the proclamation of a rather fatalistic view that the black community is systemically oppressed and actively persecuted by the police.
Oh good, another person popping in to say that the protesters have no proposed reforms based on never having looked into it at all.
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06-07-2020 , 07:16 PM
Meanwhile, protesters are out there making progress despite your tut tutoring about virtue signaling

https://www.axios.com/minneapolis-ci...e5f8cea0f.html
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06-07-2020 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Oh good, another person popping in to say that the protesters have no proposed reforms based on never having looked into it at all.
Right, there was so much civil discourse going on that I might've startet to to miss the forest for the trees esp. after that compassionate dialogue with the mayor of Minneapolis.

To quote your own source:

Quote:
"...The move to replace the police department with a community-based public safety model...

...Council members said on Sunday that they had not yet fleshed out specific plans for what the new public safety system will look like, but said they would commit to working with the community and draw on past studies and policing reforms around the world for guidance"
Really productive.
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06-07-2020 , 07:55 PM
Those models exist and in greater detail than that one article. Of course it is still an open question how much of those proposals will be adopted. But achieving negotiation and having already secured concessions is progress. It does not all happen overnight.
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06-07-2020 , 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Those models exist and in greater detail than that one article. Of course it is still an open question how much of those proposals will be adopted. But achieving negotiation and having already secured concessions is progress. It does not all happen overnight.
And achieving that would not have been possible without acting out while thought-policing everyone that remotely disagrees?

Not anyone's idea of a democracy, who has remained somewhat reasonable in this day and age.

Last edited by well named; 06-07-2020 at 08:37 PM. Reason: removed problematic comparison
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06-07-2020 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteoBounce
Right, there was so much civil discourse going on that I might've startet to to miss the forest for the trees esp. after that compassionate dialogue with the mayor of Minneapolis.
It's so important to remember this. The vast majority of protestors are peaceful and want it to be peaceful.

The media and the establishment likes to focus on the violence, which is one of the reasons the violence is so stupid. It is not the mains story though - not even closee.
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06-07-2020 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteoBounce
And achieving that would not have been possible without acting out while thought-policing everyone that remotely disagrees?

Not anyone's idea of a democracy, who has remained somewhat reasonable in this day and age.
What are some positions that you feel are being thought policed?

Last edited by well named; 06-07-2020 at 08:37 PM.
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06-07-2020 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteoBounce
And achieving that would not have been possible without acting out while thought-policing everyone that remotely disagrees?
Uh, yes? You think this would have happened without protests of this kind of scale? lol

Last edited by well named; 06-07-2020 at 08:37 PM.
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06-07-2020 , 08:27 PM
Imagine looking at the politics from the United States and being like "yeah this massive change would definitely have happened if interested parties just sat down and talked it out" lmao
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06-07-2020 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 south
This thread could be spammed with all the outrageous acts police have committed over the last 8 days or so.
I'm all for better pay for better police.
It will take a war to change police culture and i doubt the politicians have the stomach for it.

They will continue to make most symbolic moves until they think the passions are down but then pull back.

The most telling thing for me is not the abuses caught on tape but rather the brazenness of the 57 Buffalo cops who stepped down from their emergency response in protest of the two cops who pushed that 75 year old man over and then lied saying he merely 'fell' on their report.

The police sent a signal 'the blue wall is strong and we will have our brothers back if they abuse and lie about citizens'.

I could get past the push that lead to the fall. with some internal police discipline, if the cop just said 'I never meant for him to fall. It was wrong but an accident'. But the lying on the police report is what terrifies me.

I think the masses of guys who are in jail now due to police report lies would shock even those of us who know they have always lied a lot.
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06-07-2020 , 08:45 PM
I don’t think much of anything changes until more cops are fired and charged with crimes as if they were a normal citizen. These protests will eventually end and things will go back to being the same unless the cops know there are consequences for their actions.

Last edited by jh12547; 06-07-2020 at 08:57 PM.
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06-07-2020 , 08:55 PM
Wow, who could have possibly foreseen Matteo here dropping racial slurs at black people? I'm sure that this will be a one off thing that will never require any more moderation.
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06-07-2020 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
That's only one element of it. If you don't support or agree with Kap, you get cancelled. Cancel culture is a thing...
you know who got cancelled? Kaepernick. you know who didnt get cancelled? Ben Roethlisberger when he raped multiple women. Kobe when he raped a women. countless powerful men when they raped and took advantage and stole.
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06-07-2020 , 08:59 PM
Normal people: "Black people are people and should have equal rights! If you don't like that, I don't want to be friends with you"

Matteo: "Evil thought police are running amok! Don't tell me people should think that!"
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