Police brutality and police reform (US) - Page 69 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I would prefer there not be looting over there being looting, but like, what do you then do with that info? That's a pretty obvious and boring statement that I wouldn't expect to be a surprise, but it sounds like maybe it is to you guys?

What happens next, though, is that people want to use that as a cudgel against the protests at large, and as a reason to defend police escalating violence against protesters across the country. And, uh, no? **** that. Kelhus tried really hard earlier to make us all think that we need police to come in and crack some skulls a bit harder because look at all the terrible things that happened in Santa Monica when they don't. And then a video finally gets posted of what happened and it's...broken windows everywhere? I mean, yeah I'd rather that not happen than happen given the choice, but you're telling me that's why we need cops in riot gear bashing protesters to the ground and throwing tear gas?

NOPE. **** that noise.

This attitude is fine with me and I pretty much agree. Kelhus is the main person in the thread who seems to be openly placing a higher value on protection of property than on allowing people to protest.

I am reacting to the small number of posters, including Wookie, who seem to be enthusiastic about the arson and looting and who seem to be suggesting, without saying so explicitly, that anyone who feels differently is promoting a Mississippi sheriff narrative about black "thugs".

I don't accept the assumption that arson/looting are intrinsic and integral to the protests and that the protesters and the arsonists/looters are one and the same. I don't buy the assumption that the arsonists/looters are mainly black people. That almost certainly is empirically wrong. And FWIW, both assumptions seem very Breitbartish to me.

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06-03-2020 , 08:58 AM

#1702

corpus vile

Carpal \'Tunnel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

Their assumptions were already pointed out to them ages ago and they did indeed intimate that anyone who disagreed was a racist/right wing/defending racists etc. They haven't a clue how to debate honestly or in good faith

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06-03-2020 , 09:00 AM

#1703

tame_deuces

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapologist

The black boxes from companies and artists that have made money from hurting the black community are so hypocritical. We need cultural change on all levels and that includes getting rid of all those rap songs that glorify crime, violence, and hatred of cops that many people listen to 1000 times growing up and get indoctrinated by.

Following the same vein of logic we should get rid of crutches, because they are causing broken legs.

Not that I don't think music can influence culture, but compared to how much it is the other way around, this is fairly negligible. To go even further and put a causative link between music and violent behavior smacks of '70s interest groups and moral censorship.

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06-03-2020 , 09:06 AM

#1704

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by corpus vile

My disagreement with Wookie doesn't mean that I think you are right. Your overall takes in this thread have been considerably worse than Wookie's recent takes.

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06-03-2020 , 09:07 AM

#1705

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

There a real political problem as well. Every failure of the protest movement to completely disassociate itself from support for violence or looting is a catastrophe for the political movement and adds to the personal risk to the overwhelmingly decent and peaceful protest movement.

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06-03-2020 , 09:13 AM

#1706

Stlls

banned

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

This attitude is fine with me and I pretty much agree. Kelhus is the main person in the thread who seems to be openly placing a higher value on protection of property than on allowing people to protest.

I am reacting to the small number of posters, including Wookie, who seem to be enthusiastic about the arson and looting and who seem to be suggesting, without saying so explicitly, that anyone who feels differently is promoting a Mississippi sheriff narrative about black "thugs".

I don't accept the assumption that arson/looting are intrinsic and integral to the protests and that the protesters and the arsonists/looters are one and the same. I don't buy the assumption that the arsonists/looters are mainly black people. That almost certainly is empirically wrong. And FWIW, both assumptions seem very Breitbartish to me.

How come?

There are several black people on YouTube who were amidst the riots in different cities and claimed exactly that. One of them is an asian/african-american guy named sneako, who's other content is to a large extent about the racial discrimination he experienced during his life in the US. He is also anti-Trump. Yet he and his african girlfriend, who were taking footage next to the looters in NY, claimed both that the absolute vast majority of looters in NY were black. They also showed no understanding for looting, especially because the looters targeted mainly high-priced foreign fashion-boutiques.

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06-03-2020 , 09:19 AM

#1707

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

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Originally Posted by revots33

This is such junior high level thinking. Glad you're "not sweating the looting" though. So what if some immigrants lose their businesses and their life savings, and a few get killed defending their stores? Small price to pay to make that valid point about the GI Bill by stealing a 65" widescreen.

Sorry but defending looters is dumb and you are dumb for doing it.

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06-03-2020 , 09:23 AM

#1708

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuluck414

I'm more than happy. Burn it all down.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Give us your home address and we'll come burn it down.

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06-03-2020 , 09:26 AM

#1709

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

The only reason you guys are focusing on the looking is to discredit the protests and protect the status quo. Wookie is correct to ignore it.

Victor lying again. What a shock!

I support the protesters and what they stand for.

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06-03-2020 , 09:32 AM

#1710

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

yet another reason that America is a shithole country. clowns like itshot think its radical extremism to expect police to not beat gas torture and murder innocent people.

Well, it might be slightly less of a ******** country if you leave it.

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06-03-2020 , 09:32 AM

#1711

corpus vile

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

My disagreement with Wookie doesn't mean that I think you are right. Your overall takes in this thread have been considerably worse than Wookie's recent takes.

I'm not saying you do agree with me or have to and no, I haven't engaged in any of the sleazy tactics wookie et al have engaged in itt or the Ahmaud Arbery thread either, so I'm not even close to wookie. I haven't lied, gaslighted, displayed cognitive dissonance, argued in bad faith, made false accusations against posters, glorified violence, displayed hypocrisy and engaged in assumptions the way wookie and his merry men have so again not even close to them, but please provide specific examples of how you find my overall takes considerably worse, despite my not engaging in any of the aforementioned underhand crap and we can talk about it, cheers.

If you're unwilling/unable to do so then that's cool too, and I'll simply dismiss your opinion due to your unwillingness/inability to support it.

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06-03-2020 , 09:38 AM

#1712

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,456

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Well, it might be slightly less of a ******** country if you leave it.

Did you actually type asterisks instead of "shithole"? hahaha.

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06-03-2020 , 09:40 AM

#1713

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

I don't know. You think we should all go to Mr. Wookies's house and what? Don't be deceptive in answering, please.

BURN IT DOWN!

(Please note that the post you were quoting also had the old smiley.)

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06-03-2020 , 09:45 AM

#1714

borg23

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

What about old poor black people that can't afford transportation, or are too unhealthy for long trips, having all their markets burned down and now can't go buy food? There literally was an old black lady crying, saying that all the stores she buys essentials from are burned down and she doesn't know what she's going to do now.

What about all the looting setting black neighborhoods back 10+ years? What about all the honest, hard-working black folks who are now unemployed and cannot provide for their families any longer because the businesses they worked at were torched? What about bankers not approving loans, or charging a higher vig, because the areas are risky and black people suffer for that?

And perhaps the most important question, are you okay with your house being looted and firebombed for reparations, or are you like Chris Palmer and support everything being looted and burned down except for when they came into his neighborhood?

Those things don't matter. **** whitey!

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06-03-2020 , 09:45 AM

#1715

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Mr. Floyd was from a different world than Derek Chauvin, the police officer who has been charged with third-degree murder in Mr. Floyd’s death. Mr. Floyd grew up in Houston’s Third Ward, one of that city’s poorest and most racially segregated areas. The street corner on which he died itself sits inside one of Minneapolis’s racial borderlands, where miles of majority-white residential neighborhoods begin transitioning into a cluster of majority-nonwhite blocks, in which black residents outnumber white residents two to one.

Mr. Chauvin made his home in different circles. Public records indicate that he lives in Oakdale, Minn., a suburb of St. Paul, in a neighborhood that is nearly 80 percent white, according to data from the U.S. Census Bureau. (This is the norm for Minneapolis police: more than 90 percent live outside the city.) He owns a second home, where he is registered to vote‚ near Windermere, Fla., an Orlando suburb that is 85 percent white.

Severe segregation in the Twin Cities region is a relatively recent phenomenon. In the 1960s and 1970s, the Minneapolis region was one of the most racially integrated in the nation. This was partially the product of a carefully designed “fair share” program that required all municipalities within the region to develop affordable housing within their borders, preventing suburbs from effectively barring low-income residents, as had occurred in most major American cities. Minneapolis also operated an aggressive school desegregation plan. But over time, both programs broke down under pressure from special interests and were substituted for by less politically troublesome programs.

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This all echoes a deeper truth: Racially segregated regions don’t work. They’re politically and economically unstable. They result in societies where people can’t understand each other or work together. Research shows that segregation can create and reinforce stereotypes and that it erodes people’s ability to interact across racial lines. Segregated cities are more likely to produce racism not just within the police force but throughout any political or civic institution with power.

For people of color, segregation has never been a choice. It is imposed by discriminatory practices, like exclusionary zoning or mortgage-lending discrimination. Segregation erodes the economic well-being of families of color by funneling them into economically destitute neighborhoods, where they often fall prey to exploitative practices designed to extract wealth from them, like predatory banking. In Minneapolis, black families earning more than $167,000 are less likely to be given a home loan than white families earning $42,000.

In a segregated city or metropolitan region, this can all add up to disaster: segregation fosters prejudice in affluent, predominantly white residents and at the same time it inevitably brings some of them into contact with economically vulnerable communities of color. Policing is often the thing that turns this contact into full-blown conflict.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/o...gregation.html

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06-03-2020 , 09:49 AM

#1716

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Maybe we should get rid of whatever music that murdering cop listens to.

The theme song from Dragnet?

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06-03-2020 , 09:50 AM

#1717

borg23

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Stlls

Look you're racist for saying most of the looters were black in NYC even if most of the looters are black.
Also you should give all of the looters 10 thousand dollars not to loot.

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06-03-2020 , 09:53 AM

#1718

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by tame_deuces

Well said!

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06-03-2020 , 09:54 AM

#1719

Smudger2408

banned

Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 1,922

Why would you give people money not to commit a crime?

I mean, that's another crime, called extortion....

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06-03-2020 , 10:01 AM

#1720

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Did you actually type asterisks instead of "shithole"? hahaha.

Yes.

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06-03-2020 , 10:04 AM

#1721

Huehuecoyotl

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Watching a peaceful protest turn into something much less palatable is hard. There has been a lot of hard the past few days, as people in dozens of cities have released pent-up anger against discriminatory police tactics. Cars and buildings have burned. Store windows have been smashed. Protesters and police have been hurt. When protests take a turn like this we naturally wonder … why? Was this preventable? Does anyone know how to stop it from happening?

Three federal commissions concluded that when police escalate force those efforts can often go wrong, creating the very violence that force was meant to prevent.
Turns out, we do know some of these answers. Researchers have spent 50 years studying the way crowds of protesters and crowds of police behave — and what happens when the two interact. One thing they will tell you is that when the police respond by escalating force — wearing riot gear from the start, or using tear gas on protesters — it doesn’t work. In fact, disproportionate police force is one of the things that can make a peaceful protest not so peaceful. But if we know that (and have known that for decades), why are police still doing it?

Police do do that when groups that are favorable to police protest.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-force-anyway/

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 06-03-2020 at 10:15 AM.

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06-03-2020 , 10:14 AM

#1722

Huehuecoyotl

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06-03-2020 , 10:17 AM

#1723

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

What about it, man? We could give them some money, but somehow that starts being extraordinarily impossible and expensive compared to having cops crack their skulls when it comes to asking those same people horrified by looting.

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06-03-2020 , 10:19 AM

#1724

Huehuecoyotl

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Twenty minutes after leaving his job at a Brooklyn hospital on Saturday night, 32-year-old Rayne Valentine was lying in the fetal position on the sidewalk.

He’d been beaten and kicked by New York police officers, his hospital ID smeared with his own blood, he told The Daily Beast.

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When Valentine left work, around 11:45 p.m. that night, police were clashing with protesters nearby on Church Avenue, squad cars ablaze. He was trying to avoid the chaos and would have taken an Uber or another route “if I’d known” how close the skirmishes had traveled, he recalled.

“It’s not a route I usually take. I had to take a double shift the next day, and they allow hospital workers to get hotel rooms,” said Valentine. “I was having a smoke and had my headphones in to try and decompress.”

But around midnight, he came across a “swarm” of police officers near the entrance to the Church Avenue subway station, chasing a “kid in this yellow and black hoodie,” and Valentine had his phone out recording.

“I stayed out of the way,” said Valentine. “I was up against one of the closed shops just recording. I didn’t say anything to antagonize them. I was walking backwards as they shouted ‘back up.’ And then this cop pushed me, and there were other cops hitting me on my legs and stuff too, but my head is the only thing that got seriously injured.”

In the video, which was reviewed by The Daily Beast, officers shout at Valentine to “move back” and he responds “I am moving back!”

During the beating, Valentine said, he kept getting kicked and his phone stopped recording. He said he told the officers, “I’m just trying to go home,” but that they responded: “Well, you picked the wrong time to do that.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/even-m...floyd-protests