russias definitely asked to join nato. im not sure how serious they were it was more of like ah "ah hey guys were not that tough why do you have an alliance against us. can we join? Maybe so we can all decrease military spending? Wait you guys like to spend lots of money on military and need a boogie man? ****"

I agree Russia knew they would be rejected but wanted the contrast of their request for inclusion and cooperation against NATO aggressive antagonism on the record. Russia has often advocated for inclusive security frameworks. In Dec 2021 they submitted a draft agreement with NATO to address security concerns. While Russia's very reasonable proposal was making the news rounds, the U.S. was mining the Nordstream II.

https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso...90803/?lang=en

Conceding land to Russia for peace deal out of the question, just give us more weapons bro

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64662184

They already effectively did it once, when Russia took over Crimea. If they do that a few more times they won't have any country left.

Russia might agree to give back Crimea and leave Ukraine alone if we gave them back Alaska, but I don't think that would be a good idea either; do you?

If Ukraine were willing to let go of some land for a Russian withdrawal, why would they state that publicly? They would be starting a negotiation from that position instead of ending there.

100% out of the question, and more weapons is the answer. A lot more weapons.


The last time Ukraine signed a "peace deal" with Putin, Putin scrapped it and started an unprovoked invasion, after he had already stolen land.


The goal for the west is to continue to have Putin's entire economy destroyed, his army burnt to a crisp, Putin gets Saddam'ed or Gaddaf'ed, and Russia splits into 4 different territories. If it takes years of NATO weapons supply, so be it.

The only way to deal with Putin is the same way you deal with any other snake, go all the way and cut its head off. No dancing around the bush, no playing the Snake's game, no "negotiations", step on its throat and cut its head off.

you know that if you chop the head off certain snakes off, 7 new heads appear? this one is certainly such a snake and you only lose. there are 7 new heads waiting in the chamber and they are smarter and better than your heads.

Russians dominate everything, chess, mma, they are just smarter and harder working and better organised.

Wrong.


No new heads appeared after Hitler put a bullet in his own head after getting completely smashed on the battle field.


And Russia is losing 1000 soldiers a day almost so he's trending in the right direction for a bullet to his own head.

How many Ukrainians do you think are left to put into the meat grinder?


Are you referring to the Minsk accords? There is an article out now saying Zelensky said he never attempted to follow through with those accords. And Merkel recently conceded that they were nothing but a stall tactic to employ while NATO trained and armed Ukrainians. Russia sincerely attempted to implement the accords. Russia proposed a last ditch effort to form a security agreement before they were compelled to invade.

Tien it's almost like you aren't reading my posts and aren't getting the basic facts this situation correct. Let us argue over opinions, not facts.

And as for the Russian invasion being unprovoked maybe you have the guts to answer a question others refuse. If Russia had a hand in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Mexico or Canada, acknowledged the coup plotters as a legit government and proceeded to put weapons on our border would you be cool with that? Or would you interrupt that with military force?

I'm not saying the invasion was the right thing to do, but to say it was unprovoked is to bypass the brain and become a total instrument of American oligarchs who are the only ones profiting from this situation they have concocted.


Who are you referring to when you say "the west"? Do you honestly think your goals are the same goals as those who have been instigating this war for a decade? That would seem like delusion thinking. Ukraine, it is universally acknowledged even among the hawkish establishment, is of no inherent strategic or economic interest to the U.S. I don't understand why people would want to work hard to build their country and their personal wealth only to give that money to the worst people in the world, the weapons manufacturers who profit immensely from this disaster or the energy interests who have been seething with anger over Russian gas being piped into Europe because they think every market in the world should be captive to them. But that's got nothing to do with you. They've turned you into a cheerleader for this bloodbath and all you are getting is risk exposure to nuclear war. Or if I am wrong explain your Ukraine prize to me, tell me what that is. Do you just want carnage to watch? Check out the UFC it's pretty brutal and it doesn't put your own life at risk.

Support for Putin in Russia is high. It's always like that when countries go to war- people rally. The Russian economy has not been destroyed. But do you not realize the inflationary effect of our involvement? All that government spending increase? I don't see why you would want to pay inflated gas prices and expose yourself to nuclear war risk just because Biden stuck a flashlight under his chin and told you a scary story about Putin.

1) Ukrainians at their current death rate could probably go 2 decades before they run out of fighting age men. Russia will collapse first at their current death rate.

2) Russia invaded Ukraine and stole Crimea. Then Russia spent the last 8 years supplying weaponry and arms to the Russians in Ukraine in the Donbas to continue a civil war. Peace treaty my ass. The only time Ukraine and the USA / England (the ones sending most of the weaponry) should entertain a negotiation is when Russia leaves all territories pre Feb 24 2022. Since Zelensky and Ukrainians are happy to continue fighting this war, the USA and its allies should continue supplying weaponry as long as it remains in our interest to do so.

3) Ukraine's importance to the west is 2 fold:

- Food supply for the world.

- A buffer country the west uses to destroy its strategic enemy, Russia.

I will agree with you Deuces on the weapons manufacturing industry unfortunately benefiting from this war at tax payer expense.


Western nations will spend tens of billions of dollars on large pieces of steel and explosives that will just sit in a warehouse somewhere.


But regardless of whether Putin stops this war or not, the weapons industry will continue to prosper and governments will continue buying weaponry to arm themselves to the teeth as a result of Feb 24 2022.

What I do not understand is the US has pledged tanks but still no tanks.

If your gonna send tanks send them

I don't pretend to know what is involved with sending tanks, but my guess is between training people to use them and service them, setting up logistics, etc... it's quite complicated and time-consuming. I assume browser would know more about this.

Canada pledged 4 of those tanks and they were shipped within weeks and has pledged 4 more. From my understanding they are trained on them but I could be wrong .

You think training wouldnt be that complex with simulators nowadays

Ukrainian troops have been training on Challenger 2 tanks in the UK since the beginning of February.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...ssian-invasion

But, apart from combat crews, the tanks will also require a logistical 'tail' of workshops to provide Level 1-2 maintenance in the field. (Level 1 is daily servicing, Level 2 minor fault diagnosis and repairs. These are normally carried out by the British Army. Levels 3 and 4, major repair and modification or overhaul and reconditioning, are outsourced to civilian contractors.)