Moderation Questions and General Chat Thread - Page 104 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I don’t think Victor’s postings are any more offensive or deliberately provocative than many posters on the other side of a topic. I often don’t agree with him but he’s at least a good foil to people across a spectrum of politics here. He’s also way more prone to personal attacks than most.

FYP

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05-22-2024 , 08:12 PM

#2578

Bubble_Balls

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Except you have people that are denying that it's happening

If he were to post something like that as proof then that’s reasonable if it was spoilered and clearly indicated what the image contained. I find it hard to believe that even the biggest Israel apologists think no babies have been killed, but I haven’t been following the thread so maybe that’s really what he was replying to. I just know Victor has a tendency to want to push people’s buttons. That’s not necessarily a bad thing but I wouldn’t put it past him to unnecessarily sprinkle a thread with images no one asked to see.

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05-22-2024 , 08:13 PM

#2579

chillrob

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

Well, that's just what I would expect the liberal mods to say.

I forgot to mention, he also often personally attacks other using by calling them "liberals". For him that's a bigger insult than baby killer.

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05-22-2024 , 08:15 PM

#2580

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Except you have people that are denying that it's happening

I've seen Victor do more denying of violence than anyone else. He seems to think 10/7 was a hoax.

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05-22-2024 , 08:16 PM

#2581

chillrob

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Must have been something you posted then because he's never called me those things.

I made many posts criticizing Hamas and the general population of Gaza. I guess you've never done that.

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05-22-2024 , 08:18 PM

#2582

Bubble_Balls

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I forgot to mention, he also often personally attacks other using by calling them "liberals". For him that's a bigger insult than baby killer.

He tends to speak in generalities, which is what I’m getting at. It’s more about his opinion of liberals generally than pointing to just you. He does less of singling out posters than others do.

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05-22-2024 , 08:21 PM

#2583

PointlessWords

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I am certainly not one of those, and I have never even said I support Israel, yet he claims I support baby killing.

Do you know what tacit approval is?

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05-22-2024 , 08:23 PM

#2584

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls

He tends to speak in generalities, which is what I’m getting at. It’s more about his opinion of liberals generally than pointing to just you. He does less of singling out posters than others do.

I find that to be much worse. He paints everyone other than him (and a few of his toadies) as if they are a monolith of error and hatred.

If you disagree with him on one thing, he assumes you are a war mongering racist genocide supporter, and says as much, even if you have not made statements supporting any of that.

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05-22-2024 , 08:24 PM

#2585

chillrob

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Do you know what tacit approval is?

Probably what you are doing by sitting home on front of a keyboard instead of doing anything to stop the killing.

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05-22-2024 , 08:28 PM

#2586

Bobo Fett

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

Maybe you could show us an example of this rule breaking?

All we hear is rule breaking!

Show us and then we could talk about it... but since you guys have been asked to show us many times for days and you never showed us anything. U probably got nothing.

You been asked for days now.

WTF???

Dude, this happened yesterday. And if you're somehow unaware of how Victor posts, I'm not sure why you even involved yourself in this conversation. If you are aware of how Victor posts and want to say that other people are just as bad, that's one thing, but to suggest you need someone to show you posts of his that are over the line, well, LOL.

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05-22-2024 , 08:35 PM

#2587

rafiki

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Dude, this happened yesterday. And if you're somehow unaware of how Victor posts, I'm not sure why you even involved yourself in this conversation. If you are aware of how Victor posts and want to say that other people are just as bad, that's one thing, but to suggest you need someone to show you posts of his that are over the line, well, LOL.

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05-23-2024 , 02:31 AM

#2588

Montrealcorp

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Is rococo gone for ever as a pure poster , regardless being a mod or not ?

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05-23-2024 , 02:53 AM

#2589

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls

I find it hard to believe that even the biggest Israel apologists think no babies have been killed.

No one really thinks that. People think those dead babies are collateral damage in a just war, but don’t want visual reminders of it.

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05-23-2024 , 03:14 AM

#2590

Luciom

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Originally Posted by Crossnerd

While I accept that this is a viewpoint many here share, I profoundly disagree on principle with the above. Wartime photography is the reality of conflict, and spreading the awareness of that reality is a moral undertaking. We can disagree on Victor's motivations, but sharing the images is not unethical. Seeing is believing. The Napalm Girl photo changed the course of the war in Vietnam. Yes it was violent and horrifying to see a 9 year old nude little girl covered in napalm screaming and running in terror. But people needed to see it to understand the truth of what was happening. War photos are the truth.

I have changed the rules in the I/P thread so that graphic images must be spoilered, largely because many here have vocalized their desire to look away. I have made that their prerogative. But Victor is not doing anything wrong by posting the images, IMHO. This solution should satisfy both sides.

one thing is that how can we be sure those are actual non staged photos of babies/kids killed by Israeli actions?

pallywood is well known for staging photo-ops, for taking babies dead for other reasons and so on.

if war photos "can change the course of the war" given they can change popular support, it is incredibly important for them to be verified right?

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05-23-2024 , 03:17 AM

#2591

Luciom

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Originally Posted by Crossnerd

Luciom went to his room for 24 hours because he bragged about his love for bending rules as an Italian, and then proceeded to bend the personal attacks rule in a not so clever way. He also the same day had advocated for "unlimited violence". After checking his user notes, I decided a short timeout would be beneficial for him and others.

I need to check here because it wasn't really clear: so now writing that I consider what user X writes disgusting and embarrassing is a personal attack? I thought we could criticize the content of posts as much as we liked.

Writing that if you are the victim of violence that morally justifies reacting with unlimited violence is against the rules? while calling Hamas resistance fighters isn't?

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05-23-2024 , 05:45 AM

#2592

jalfrezi

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Let's just check what you wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

you are poisoning the internet with leftism, the worst ideology in the history of humanity, this doesn't mean I would be morally justified to block you from doing that. you have a fundamental right to your shitty, disgusting, embarrassing opinion

Not saying I agree with bans but this is a pretty strong personal attack imo.

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05-23-2024 , 05:54 AM

#2593

Luciom

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Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Let's just check what you wrote

Not saying I agree with bans but this is a pretty strong personal attack imo.

personal? personal would be saying something outside the content of the posts!

i mean if someone starts posting about how he wants to deport all non whites from western countries, you can't write "this ideology is horrendous" and so on? really? and marxism is infinitely worse than deporting all non whites from western countries (which is already pretty bad)

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05-23-2024 , 05:56 AM

#2594

jalfrezi

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People might say that "horrendous" is different to "shitty, disgusting, embarrassing", which are insults.

There's always a fine line to be drawn with these things, which as I keep saying is one of the fundamental problems with having moderation.

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05-23-2024 , 06:00 AM

#2595

Luciom

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Originally Posted by jalfrezi

how can they be "insults", when referred to an opinion? literally the totality of the words in the dictionary are allowed to comment an opinion , or so i thought.

If you can call an opinion fascism or nazism, surely you can call it disgusting?

you said much worse things about what i write without ever being reprimanded for that.

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05-23-2024 , 06:01 AM

#2596

Luciom

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I mean i thought the clear line was:

1) your opinion are trash (or whatever other epitet) -> always fully allowed

2) YOU are a trash person because you think this -> personal, not allowed

Was i wrong? because there are hundreds of extremely weighty comments on other people opinions in this forum which were never sanctioned. Can i report anyone who uses too strong words to address what i write?

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05-23-2024 , 06:21 AM

#2597

L0LWAT

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

We should ban people who post white supremacist ideology disguised as a hypothetical question to dance around the rules. Especially when it occurs tens of times per day. It seems like we are encouraging this behaviour by allowing it.

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05-23-2024 , 06:30 AM

#2598

Luciom

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Originally Posted by L0LWAT

but not marxists right? because reasons?

I use white supremacy as an example because it generates particular disgust in people like you, so you can understand what i feel when i read marxist opinions.

The questions stands, do you believe forum rules don't allow you to describe white supremacist opinions as disgusting, embarassing, shitty? because it's either you can never do that about any opinion, or you can always do for any opinion

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05-23-2024 , 06:41 AM

#2599

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

Under different moderation rules.

You have the choice of observing whatever rules are in place or ignoring them and getting banned. Deal with it.

If you call someone's views poisonous, shitty, disgusting and embarrassing then imo you've broken the current rules. You think using a thesaurus to use 100 pejoratives to describe someone's views when one mild one would do wouldn't break the rules? Mods have to draw a line somewhere.

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05-23-2024 , 06:48 AM

#2600

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

There's an objective difference between white supremacy, which aims to inflict misery on a very large number of people, and Marxism which (though it may well be misguided) aims to improve people's lives. You're making the ultimate false equivalence.

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