It seems to me that she got that part correct. But there are definitely a good number of less devout and more peaceful Muslims in other parts of the world. I hear that's true about Indonesia anyway.

This seems like a very bigoted misandrist statememt to me. I am certainly horrified by rape, and I would stop other men from raping if I could. Unfortunately I am no more able to do that than are the women of the world.

#notallmen

Don't think this is much of a hypothetical. I'd think it's extremely probable this has happened during the last 40+ years and I don't think there are many people that would propose it was orders from above. It's an unfortunate byproduct of war that probably all countries are guilty of.

what the **** dude

You haven't asked me if I consider what Hamas did a genocide. If you did, the answer I would give you is "no".

It was certainly a declaration of a war, a pogrom, and one of the most atrocious days documented on film in an era. But no, the war crimes committed there wouldn't amount to genocide. But when your enemy CELEBRATES that day, and promises more of them...You're at war.

When we see the video and photo evidence of that day alongside the hostage/survivor and victim statements, it's not hard to see why so many put on the uniform to go strike at Hamas. There was simply no choice but to make sure this could never happen again.

Why are you shocked?

That's EXACTLY what happened.

Man vs. Bear isn't even a fair contest anymore, it should be like Man vs. Really Hungry Bear and I think women are still 90% Team Bear.

I can try to get you a library card, friend. Women's history is an extensive subject at this point, and nothing I've said here is a fringe viewpoint. I think that can be difficult for some people to digest.

The fact remains sexual violence almost certainly occurred and is still occurring on both sides, because that is the nature of men and war.

How is the bold relevant if we don't talk frequencies?

I am not saying what you said is "fringe", i am said it's based on a marxist field of inquiry which as such as no validity in finding any actual truth. The totality of the intellectual production of marxists should never be used to inform opinions in general. A field *created* by a marxist, even less.

Also, Gerda Lerner is a Jew who escaped Nazi Europe, for your reference. So I am also quite sure no attack you levy against her will be new or unique.

And? she was a communist. That's my attack on her intellectual production.

That does not follow at all.

Do they? Cause I'm reading a few of the comments today and I'm not so sure. There's a whole cohort of pre-teen boys who idolize Andrew Tate, you're going to need to show your work here vis-a-vis men taking rape seriously.

It follows.

Pre teen boys aren't in western militaries.

I think over the past 300ish years women have gained power and that's probably reduced the incidence of rape [CITATION NEEDED], but it's not obvious to me that men have improved in any significant way and I need more than feels as evidence.

We're arriving at the predictable point where the powerful/powerless colonizer/colonized paradigm often fails. We were destined to get here.

And when it does fail as it has here, it always produces things like:

-rape denial
-oh but all armies rape
-but were the rapes coordinated?
-surely at some point the IDF raped
-tearing down hostage posters
-calling a Kibbutz a military installation
-calling any adult in Israel a soldier and every Palestinian a civilian
-calling the acts of Oct 7th "resistance"

These things I've listed are absolutely necessary for this powerful/powerless viewpoint of this world. And they're necessary because the people who back the "powerless" need them for their world to make any sense. You're the "righteous" ones. You're on the "right side of history". It stands to reason you must be rooting for good, right?

But what is obvious to anyone who understands humans, is you can be both less powerful, and HORRIBLE. There is absolutely no reason for those things to be mutually exclusive. So now we watch the world wiggle itself into a pretzel on what Hamas is. Denying or maneuvering around that darkness is all there is left to do.

Do you think rape in afghanistan by american soldiers was comparable in frequency to rape in Rome under barbarian invasions or Jerusalem with crusaders or Poland with nazist and russian armies?

do you think american soldiers raped far less if at all in afghanistan because afghani women have more power, or can you accept they did because they simply were far better morally than red army soldiers, nazi soldiers, barbarians and crusaders?

Part of the cognitive dissonance you're experiencing is due to the black and white thinking that has permeated this conflict. Intersectionality and nuance are not addressed when using purely enemy/ally and good/bad framing. There are numerous power structures that interplay with one another, and you will not be able to accurately analyze debates like this when the only colors you are using are black and white and the conflict is infinite shades of gray.

I don't say this to pick on you. Clearly this is a common issue among posters itt.

You, like almost all the male posters itt, have approached the issue of rape and rape denial from the standpoint of Israel vs Hamas power structure, and I have approached it from the standpoint of men vs women power structure. You do, in fact, need both perspectives to accurately analyze the claims.

lol how can anyone answer a question like that?

You keep using the word intersectionality, is there a way to say what you mean that doesn't use words and framing of thought invented by marxists?

Do you at least accept that there are a lot of people who consider all those marxist created branches of social sciences, ideas, frames of thought as utter crap ? do you realize talking about "the patriarchy" and "intersectionality" is an extremely partisan way to discuss things?

Even the "power structure" framework is a marxist one. You talk like the wokes, and you do on trans topics as well. A lot of people fully reject everything linked to wokism, it's not that we don't understand, it's that we consider it a completly illegitimate way to have useful discussions about any topic

why? it's patently obvious that american soldiers raped less in afghanistan simply because they were morally far superior to red army soldiers, nazi soldiers, barbarians and crusaders.

Their culture didn't justify rape in war while the other cultures did. Which makes those other cultures *objectively inferior morally* at least for that topic.

Now the question is how much the culture shared by active terrorist members of Hamas justifies rape in war, or of "the enemy" in general.

Some of us remember when US soldiers gangraped a 14 year old girl, broke her mothers arms as she struggled to save her, then murdered her parents and 6 year old sister as they raped her, before shooting her in the head multiple times and setting her body on fire.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ar...ive-new-ruling

yes, have you read the part about frequency? you need like 20k cases like that per year to come close to the 4 events i described.

We have a problem if quantification doesn't matter over large numbers.

Unfortunately, I am highly educated and "quite smart as well", as LB would say, so I am not currently willing or able to do away with all the critical thinking and reasoning skills I worked so hard to attain.

Ok then just accept you won't be able to discuss with that frame with everyone who rejects that frame (not only this topic, but in general).

It's we deny the words you use have meaning