Israel/Palestine thread - Page 1053 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

It isn't an excuse. Its an indictment. If men were so horrified by rape, they would stop each other from raping. Instead, its a hallmark of male violence that permeates the entirety of human history.

100%. Anyone who says otherwise is arguing in bad faith and being sexist imo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

It might be an indictment of men, but in doing so it removes blame from individuals.

I am going to guess that occurences of rape in western militaries today are far fewer than they were in the WW2 example, largely because men do care about this issue.

By removing all details that occur between "any rape occurred" and "rape was a coordinated effort", the matter is simplified in a manner that removes any individual accountability and in this case seeks to lump all men together. I am unsure if rape has occurred in every conflict ever, but I can guarantee that recently efforts to prevent and respond to sexual violence have evolved significantly, particularly in Western militaries. This type of framing ignores those efforts, and also excuses those who make no effort to combat sexual violence.

Here’s the sexism lmao. Don’t tell girls they are wrong about sexual assault. Your opinions thoughts and ideas are invalid and not welcome in this space

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossnerd

You can have that opinion but it goes against all empirical evidence of women’s history of sexual violence in war time. Indeed, it is a phenomenon that has not diminished within the framework of other atrocities within modern history. You can be mad at me for citing it, or mad at the men who make it true. The patriarchy is a monolith, but if you want to “not all men” me, by all means, I am versed in that arena.

<shrug>

Exactly

If we didn’t want men to rape we would shoot them in the head on the spot. Instead it’s a “boys will be boys” attitude

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05-24-2024 , 01:33 PM

#26302

filthyvermin

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wait.... do people still believe the nyt mass rape story was real journalism?

i thought that was completely exposed as made up, and everyone agreed it was made up, no?

tbh, I didn't really follow what was going on too closely... but I assumed that was the case. is that not the case?

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05-24-2024 , 01:48 PM

#26303

72off

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ar...ive-new-ruling

interesting

i'd like to see ol drooling idiot brandon wriggle his way out of this jam

(spoiler: he wont)

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05-24-2024 , 01:53 PM

#26304

The Horror

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Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 460

Intersectionality might be a concept that comes to conclusions with which people might disagree but the concept isn't illegitimate. That groups' oppression is overlapped by power dynamics isn't Marxist; it's axiomatic.

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05-24-2024 , 01:57 PM

#26305

The Horror

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Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 460

That said, if rapes occur as a result of the coordinated attack for other purposes, why are the leaders of the coordinated attack not on the hook for the rapes which occurred in the commission of the attack? I don't understand this.

Last edited by The Horror; 05-24-2024 at 01:57 PM. Reason: I shouldn't say "if"

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05-24-2024 , 02:03 PM

#26306

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

You keep using the word intersectionality, is there a way to say what you mean that doesn't use words and framing of thought invented by marxists?

Basic math is Marxist now?

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05-24-2024 , 02:05 PM

#26307

jalfrezi

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05-24-2024 , 02:06 PM

#26308

campfirewest

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Quote:

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

The UN believes it: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ael-2024-03-04

Quote:

"Credible circumstantial information, which may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including genital mutilation, sexualized torture, or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, was also gathered," read the 24-page U.N. report.

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05-24-2024 , 02:20 PM

#26309

PointlessWords

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Not trying to be a dick. He clearly said mass rapes and your quote says some forms of sexual violence

It is pretty femicidal to dismiss rapes tho

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05-24-2024 , 02:24 PM

#26310

Crossnerd

quite smart as well

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 39,832

Quote:

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

No, I think the NYT story was debunked. The issue the thread is having is that they're arguing in binary, where there was either NO rape or there was coordinated MASS rape, and the reality is it was somewhere in between.

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05-24-2024 , 02:34 PM

#26311

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossnerd

No, I think the NYT story was debunked. The issue the thread is having is that they're arguing in binary, where there was either NO rape or there was coordinated MASS rape, and the reality is it was somewhere in between.

Yes, AND it was a lot more than what usually happen these days.

I don't think they have been issued orders to rape. But I think terrorists hellbent to kill as many Jews as possible civilians included rape a lot more than western soldiers in wars. A LOT more. And released hostages testified as such

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05-24-2024 , 02:36 PM

#26312

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Not trying to be a dick. He clearly said mass rapes and your quote says some forms of sexual violence

It is pretty femicidal to dismiss rapes tho

Man please uninstall the beta simp routine

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05-24-2024 , 02:37 PM

#26313

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

But I think terrorists hellbent to kill as many Jews as possible civilians included rape a lot more than western soldiers in wars. A LOT more.

Let's see some data supporting that contention.

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05-24-2024 , 02:40 PM

#26314

Trolly McTrollson

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I have absolutely no clue what moral points either side is trying to score here. Maybe the guys butchering toddlers also committed some rapes, maybe they didn't? Can anyone explain why they're so invested in proving one side or the other of this?

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05-24-2024 , 02:52 PM

#26315

57 On Red

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossnerd

If men were so horrified by rape, they would stop each other from raping.

I'm sorry, but this is ludicrous. In civil society, rape, like even casual street harassment, tends to happen where there aren't any other non-onside men on hand to intervene. In violent ethnic conflict, rapists may encounter a permissive environment, as probably happened on Oct 7, but this is an abnormal event.

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05-24-2024 , 03:03 PM

#26316

PointlessWords

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

The Palestinians are getting raped daily in the IDF prisons. This has been going on for 20 years

What’re your thoughts on this state sponsored mass raping?

Quote

05-24-2024 , 03:04 PM

#26317

PointlessWords

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

Man please uninstall the beta simp routine

I’m sorry but I come from a place where brown women are killed indiscriminately and without repercussions. It’s a serious topic and something men love to ignore

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05-24-2024 , 03:05 PM

#26318

72off

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https://theintercept.com/2024/05/24/...g-disappeared/

Quote:

AS EARLY AS November, reports emerged of doctors being detained and going missing in north Gaza. According to the World Health Organization, at least 214 medical staff from Gaza have been detained by the Israeli military. In early May, the detention and alleged torture of medical staff from Gaza made headlines when Israeli authorities announced the death of Adnan Al-Bursh, a well-known surgeon and the head of orthopedics at Al-Shifa Hospital. After being taken into custody in December, officials said Al-Bursh died in April while in Ofer Prison, an Israeli detention facility in the occupied West Bank.

[...] Al-Bursh is one of at least 493 Palestinian medical workers who have been killed in Gaza since October 7, according to the Ministry of Health.

israel appears to be systematically disappearing, torturing, and killing doctors. seem bad

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05-24-2024 , 03:11 PM

#26319

57 On Red

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

The Israelis, predictably, aren't best pleased, and have even made the usual claim that if they can't do what they like then Israel will cease to exist immediately. (Which it won't, obviously.)

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/...offensive-gaza

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05-24-2024 , 03:26 PM

#26320

Luciom

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Israel should leave the UN

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05-24-2024 , 03:47 PM

#26321

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PointlessWords

The Palestinians are getting raped daily in the IDF prisons. This has been going on for 20 years

What’re your thoughts on this state sponsored mass raping?

Let me guess - because it was sanctioned by the state it was therefore legal, and perfectly ok.

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05-24-2024 , 03:50 PM

#26322

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

Israel should leave the UN

Alternatively the UN should invade Israel, arrest its political leaders and miliary chiefs and escort them to The Hague for trial for war crimes while enforcing the 1967 borders.

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05-24-2024 , 03:51 PM

#26323

PointlessWords

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If you rape/torture your prisoners, do they then also become hostages?

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05-24-2024 , 03:52 PM

#26324

King Spew

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 72off

israel appears to be systematically disappearing, torturing, and killing doctors. seem bad

The article said that the medical doctor died while in custody.

Please provide evidence that he was murdered.

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05-24-2024 , 03:52 PM

#26325

PointlessWords

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Alternatively the UN should invade Israel, arrest its political leaders and miliary chiefs and escort them to The Hague for trial for war crimes.

Absolutely not. Jews would cease to exist worldwide. Antisemites would get into power and Israel would actually cease to exist

Same thing if we let all white people rule the UN and then let the UN invade people; we would get a white ethnocentric UN in no time.

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