As none of yours have been throughout

We can only go by what we hand

Rafiki is quoting the updated UN numbers, the organization that condemns Israel in disproportionate ways

As our new mod has so eloquently explained, you need only demonstrate your points with robust facts, and we will engage with you without slinging mud. You will always be afforded space for this in here Vic.

For the sake of the thread, just try. You can do it

the UN themselves say the numbers are not definitive.

she actually said the opposite and said that she is not the arbiter of truth or facts.

but again, Sartre quote.

But they are reliable enough for every news agency in the world to share when it's time to denounce Israel and proclaim genocide.

I simply ask you to consider that they're good enough to keep sharing now. Fair?

War and genocide aren’t mutually exclusive.

Are you aware of that or is this something you need to learn ?

I believe that with the new suggested thread rules, you're not supposed to speculate on what I'm supposed to learn. We have to just debate the facts.

What fact shall we discuss?

War and genocide aren’t mutually exclusive as you made it seem to be in your argument against Israels actions meeting the definition of genocide


Why did you state that? Did you know you were wrong?

I don't know what point you are trying to make.

Well you’re incorrectly defining words

I want to know how long you’ve known you were doing this

U.S. Files Serial Numbers Off Missiles Sent To Israel

Victor, there's one thing I noticed today. And I noticed it because it dawned on me that I can still be better in what I'm about to explain to you.

Earlier today you saw someone tell the "every baby in an incubator died" mistruth. And I'm guessing you knew he wasn't being truthful there. Fwiw I believe the poster believed that story the same way I believe someone else reading that post, might in turn believe it immediately after. "Sounds plausible". That's how disinformation spreads.

Back to the point: Victor if you knew that wasn't true, I submit to you that you owe it to us all to highlight it. Even if that works against your "case".

When people mentioned religious zealots on the Islam side, I mention the Haredim and my dislike of the orthodox. I HATE Bibi and his whole squad. I assume there are other spots I've argued this way.

So I'll be harder on my own guys for threats and bs where I see it. But I expect the same of you on very obvious total fabrications, the sort that get Jews into some serious trouble worldwide when the stories spread unchecked like that.

Every baby in an incubator died after the IDF forced the caretakers to leave.

This thread is too serious for onion and Babylon bee articles

Or at minimum you should post that it's satire so nobody mistakes it

I believe that you believe that. I also believe you have not come even close to demonstrating it.

I believe most of this thread does not believe that (but I'm prepared to be surprised)

I think that's as good as we can do on that.

https://theintercept.com/2024/05/13/...ployee-killed/

these people are heroes ofc. but they will likely survive this. maybe a few will die.

almost all of the Palestinian doctors that they are working with will die or be tortured for months on end. true heroism. they know that they will be dead soon, but they also know they will save enough people to make it worthwhile in the end. even thought many of the people they save will indeed die from execution or lack of medical care in the upcoming months.

similarly, the Palestinian Red Crescents are insanely brave to rush into bombings knowing that the Israelis wait for the rescuers to perform their patented double tap and often triple tap strikes. or the PRC paramedics that rushed to save Hind knowing that it was a trap set by the Israelis. they figured it was worth it on the vanishingly small chance that it either wasnt a trap (lol) or more likely the murderous psychos got preoccupied with a panty raid in the mean time. sadly, that was not to be and they incinerated both paramedics and the 6 yr old girl for sport and fund.

and now she is being used by Macklemore to build his clout. its a sick world.

Maybe I'm missing something rafiki, but you keep ducking this point. The analysis you keep referring to accepts the 30-40k number as a fact and then refutes the number of women and children in that very same count. It discredits part of the account, but credits another part of the exact same thing. So why believe the 30-40k number? And if not, your new numbers of women and children are completely unfounded. And it does nothing at all to suggest the number of total dead isn't 100k or 200k or 200 million k. It was just about the ratio.

it does not. it just says that it cant confirm it.

I should say it attempted to. It suggested the ratios were impossible though, not the absolute values.

eta: and so one may just as well have concluded that the total number of people killed were twice as many, rather than the number of women and children being half as many.

right and their reasoning for impossible ratios is not really sound.

regardless, I maintain, as I have since the start, that the death toll is much much higher. and yes I include those who die from things other than bombs and bullets like lack of dialysis, or even mental health suicides. I read Victor Klemperer's diary years ago and many of the persecuted Jews in Berlin committed suicide. it would be absurd to think the Nazis were not the cause of that.

rafki pivot time

It's reasonable to believe it's hamas that likely isn't counted. The new women and children numbers are likely correct

I don't think rafiki or i are genocide supporters so i lost interest in clicking

Sounds like the whole story was bunk, but "the UN has halved the numbers" never made sense to just say like that because it was only some of the numbers changing. But, now I think it makes sense that it's become a talking point and what has been said in this thread is just the way it got reported and repeated inside an information bubble.