I had pretty bad social anxiety in my early 20s (would literally start shaking when I approached a girl with the intent of asking her out). The internet was a godsend, in that respect.

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While I think the sentiment is well-intended, the cure for radical incels is not really dating advice, in the same way a civics lesson would not cure a white supremacist.

I actually think this sub-culture will be a very, very difficult thing to tackle, simply on the basis of how it completely rejects outside views. It doesn't even really seek societal change, but simply declares society as wrong. My take is that this makes the path to any kind of dialogue with members extremely difficult, even compared to other extremist movements. The mere act of trying to talk to someone who is in the culture would, in their eyes, be evidence that they are right; they would simply see you as a representative of the brainwashed masses. It also celebrates isolation in a manner that is extreme.

The cult-word gets thrown around too easily in discussions like these, but the incel movement to me definitely has cult-like traits. There isn't a cult-like structure (or at least not a singular one), but the way it ultimately hinges on isolating adherents from society and convincing them that they are helpless outside the movement seems very reminiscent of cults.

I agree with you, but as you say, these people existed before the internet. The internet is not going anywhere and I'm not really satisfied with solutions that would simply seek to keep maladjusted people from being a problem rather than try to stop them from being created in the first place. Of course in the meanwhile you need to keep tabs on them as you would any other dangerous group but if that's all we do it seems as futile as the war on drugs or terror. If we want to do something meaningful, we need much broader and more fundamental changes in society to address what creates these people and all extremists and bigots.

the internet is the best and worst thing to happen to us.

just as easily as it does the thing qp is saying, it also makes it easier than ever to get anonymous psychological help as well.

the problem with the "incel culture" is that it's pretty easy to "solve" they just have no desire to do it and would rather push the fault onto an "other" in this case being sexual partners.

go to the gym, eat healthy, lower the insane standards that social media and the internet have given people, and just meet people and talk to them..

Ya that is another big factor tied to social media.

SM has created an image that everyone is beautiful and living these amazing lives. Young women increasingly dealing with body image issues, etc and others depressed that they are not living these exciting jet setting lives. Meanwhile most of it is fiction.

Another threat that I think connects to incels.

None of these are a solution to their problem. Their problem is dehumanizing other people. You can do all the things you mention here and be a piece of **** that gets laid.

One of the main reasons that women have been subjugated in many places at many times is that sexually inadequate men have used their physical power to prevent them from finding a better lover/father to their children.

Have incels heard of hookers? Or failing that couldn't they whack off? Instead of murdering people?

Why not both ?

/funny. (OK, not funny)

In the 21st century, speaking of "white make issues", there are a lot of problems for everyone but on average white males have adapted worse than white females to the 211st century and statistics back this up.
The first failure of most incels is that they refuse to talk about their issues with women but instead with other men. The incel movement is born out of a combination of those problems(lower educational achievement, higher suicide rate, lower standards of living) and then used by small pockets of ultra greedy men and turned into support for things like nationalism, racism,etc.

Forgetting about sex even, my best advice to incels is to talk to women about their issues more.There are solutions that most men don't even understand.

This is what was knows as a 'happily married man' not all that long ago.

I just learned of someone by the name Nick Fuentes. In it he is on a panel with a woman admitting he's an incel BUT he knows exactly how women think, sorta making him a voluntary celibate I guess. Anyway in it he spouts some utterly misguided presumptions about things like how pickup artists easily sleep with a dozen women per week using simple strategies thus proving that women are stupid and easily manipulated, etc etc etc. Thing is all of his examples are horse ****, they arent things he really has experience in, they are just talking points exaggerated to suit his narrative. Kinda like that poster above SpinMyRightRound.

Why not all three? Maybe even throw a little drinking and gambling in there.

I don't have a narrative, I'm just curious why we need feminism in western societies these days and why there aren't equivalent groups which help benefit men (meninism or whatever it's called).

Why do you see this as a problem?

Because it all plays a part in the societal challenges that young men face. Modern day feminism has become a movement that actively hates men and paints women as helpless victims. When young men are being fed that message, it's not healthy for their mind or mental state.

You can laugh all you want, but many men now see the hypocrisy of feminism, if they didn't see it already. It's not about equality. They just want maximum benefits for women. Which is why they fight for more women in top level executive roles but never for more women to be trash collectors.

And where's International Mens Day btw? I saw a big deal being made about International Womens Day but barely a word is spoken about International Mens Day.

You're describing every special interest group and the problem with identity politics in general.

And while I agree that women probably don't need much help these days I'm sure this point would have been arrived at had they not organized.

Eventually protected classes should be done away with as they get an even footing but that doesn't mean protected classes aren't needed short term.

And in this particular case, what systemic hurdles do young men face that women don't ?

The argument you're making is more theoretical than practical from what I can see.

The solution to sitting at home like a slug is getting off your ass and doing something with your life. Same now as it was in 1970 or 1940.

To play devil's advocate here I think the challenge is that these 'advocacy groups' who were, in fact very necessary at many points through their journey start finding they are winning and thus 'less needed' they do not look to just step away with the 'win'.

I think a lot of todays far more polarized world is a direct result of many of the advocacy groups on the left finding themselves being disintermediated and left behind, as the US (the West) had been improving for POC, Women and other marginalized groups for decades and thus it was harder for these 'agents' to gain any voice or relevancy.

My grandparents and my parents lived through a much more polarized world than I did as POC and sadly my kids and any grandkids seem to be facing a much more polarized one as well.

I absolutely feel this is largely driven by activist agents on the left who felt a need to go out and find (and poke) the declining and mostly silent elements of racism, sexism, etc and to make them active again so they could 'point at bad people' still existing and rally them for a fight, thus then boosting their own need and job. I think it is pretty clear that the more radical people on the left are gleeful to push people in the centre to one extreme or the other so they can bolster numbers on both sides. More bad people and more advocates joining them.

Whereas I think peace (and prosperity) resides mostly more in the mushy middle where we do not focus on those aspects or enflame them and instead try to ignore peoples imperfections as long as they are not subjugating others. I have no issue with Archie Bunker living amongst us and just quietly laughing at him, whereas the radical left would feel the need to try and isolate and break him and to drive him as far extreme right as possible so they can then point at him.

I think there's some truth to groups looking for ways to stay relevant but I disagree pretty strongly with the bolded part. I would question at what point you considered bigotry to be mostly silent. If they were ever it was not because of a change of heart. Wealthy conservatives first used Fox News and then the internet as a mouthpiece for propaganda to paint progressive ideals so they could distract their poor constituents from their grifting. The left didn't force them to do that. No amount of poking or endzone ball-spiking would justify bigotry anyway.

Well, it is a bit strange to enter a thread about the incel movement and its radicalization, which has gone to the point of multiple terrorist attacks and mass murders in recent years and then write posts that claim the actual problem is feminism.

What's the take from that? Because some pundit can dig up a feminist tweet some people don't like, we need to sympathize with a movement that has grown to include endorsement of political terror and murder of innocent people, while radical incels gleefully posts memes and mock the victims from the sidelines?

How would you expect him to post on this topic?

I don't know.

It just seems to me that the rather absurd nature of the incel movement and the more cringy aspects of its various creeds make people forget what we're actually talking about here: A movement has come to include radical elements that encourage terrorist attacks and people who actually carry them out.

"They should just date someone" or "society is to blame" is a weird reaction to that, it's a bit like saying that people who hijack and blow up airplanes just need cheaper airplane tickets and longer vacations.

I do not deny the elements of the radical right but they are greatly empowered and amplified by the extreme elements on the left who I feel want to amplify them as much as possible.

Much of leftist based cancel culture is just that. Find 'bad people' in the shadows and extract every 'bad thing' they may have done decades ago to both isolate and cancel them and often radicalize them and push them more clearly to the 'other side'. The radical left needs an 'other side' to fight and to demonize and to then show how virtuous they are in comparison to. This is deliberate and intended.

I know, in this subforum this will now be received well but I just started to listen to John Stewarts podcasts and he addresses this element with the far left. Like many comedians he is disturbed by it. He even defends Joe Rogan, without going deep into specifics, as he speaks to what he sees as a lot of misinformation being used against him and this rallying cry intended more to bury him then engage him, (my paraphrase). He makes it clear he is not getting into the content but rather the tactics used that sit above content. Tactics you see so many on this forum elated and eager to use.

If we all agree that the seeds of these various 'Maladjustments' are endemic to humans as a species such that 'young men can be whipped up into violent incels', 'mothers and fathers can be whipped up to over throw an election', 'individuals can be inspired to terrorism' and so on and so on,...

And...

... if we agree that the Internet and more specifically Social Media algorithms are the constant in all of these radicalizations and its growth (not the only factor but the constant)...


Then what can society do to address it? Or are we doomed to just accept this as part of the new normal?

If we all agree that pigs have wings then pigs can fly.

I get your reaction, and I share it, but why would you expect an actual incel to approach the topic in a way that is not typical of being an incel. I also agree that saying they just need to date someone is not an answer (though it also is not really a likely outcome as well). I am not saying I have the answers to this, but I always assume people will behave in the way they will behave. To borrow from a different expression - incels gonna incel, so expecting them to have a different perspective (and being surprised at it) when they talk about this topic likely makes any actual ability to resolve their issues in a proper manner a bit more difficult.

I am not as familiar with the incel culture as some in this thread, so I have no idea if the more violent radicalization within it are those that actually share the incel code of beliefs or if they are using this group as a form of cover as they do the violent things they would already do.