Yes. I used the word fascist in my last post. Thanks for that timely addendum. I know some flag waver will get raw......

See, unlike QP, at least you stick to your guns (lol).

I realize you don't have kids, but maybe you have a cat or something you love, so say there was a shooter in a PetSmart killing cats and your cat was there relaxing in an aromatic bath until gunfire broke out.

The cops are there and refuse to do anything. Now I know you don't agree with charging in with a gun, but do you think you should be allowed to go in unarmed in an attempt to save Princess, your precious cat?

You are wrong.

If you want to censor my post for length that is all you get, otherwise I will explain WHY you are wrong in whatever length is required.

Correct.

Right.

Dude, you literally said that if the police refuse to go in due to personal danger then a legally armed citizen should be allowed in. Have you changed your mind already?

Well said.

serious question.

Lets say next week this type of scenario repeats itself (sad but not that remote a possibility).

You have an active shooter inside, and a bunch of police establishing a perimeter and refusing to go in.

Parents are arriving in large numbers, they are now sensitive to inaction by the cops and even if the cops are planning the parents fear of nothing happening is what drives them.

They either rush the police or rush the school knowing the police cannot stop them all.


Do you think that is just weird fan fic type stuff or increasingly likely?

That's probably true.

+1

This!!!

Nearly 20 police officers stood in a hallway while children were murdered, and they waited for back up.

Limp duck cowards, every last one of them. The only action they took was against non limp duck parents who wanted to save their kids.

If the cops can’t do anything then, they are absolutely worthless. They literally serve no purpose.

Good to know you would hide in the hallway with the limp duck cops.

You want me to explain how you are wrong instead of just telling you, you are? Or do you prefer to restrict my reply?

Lol. I know how I behave in crisis. I can assure you I wouldn’t be standing there while tiny children are murdered. Just because you know you can’t muster a spine doesn’t mean everyone is the same. You have a future in law enforcement it seems.

Every conservative who supports no changes to gun laws and wants abortion outlawed are that person. There are literally tens of millions of them. Sounds like you are one as you hem and haw about potential solutions to actual baby murder.

As you procede with reading this thread, you'll notice that I supported the idea of armed citizens taking action here in light of the apparent inaction of the police.

In other words: I think you and I agree here!

No they're not.

No I'm not.

Huh? I literally just asked you a yes or no question: did you change your mind? I don't need to know why - just yes or no.

You have clearly demonstrated that you think there are situations where citizens should take up arms while not on their own property.

They put their right to own guns unfettered above the safety of children. They are choosing dead babies,

Your little dance here is tired.

Should citizens be allowed to second guess police who have established control in a dangerous situation ?

I don't expect much from the locals but whatever training and ability to coordinate they have is way more than mine. I'd say I shouldn't be allowed to interfere. At some point if they're particularly terrible I may chose to interfere but I don't think it should be 'allowed'. No.

More likely now than yesterday but not very likely.

In a real crisis situation people are going to do what these parents did. Go nuts while following directions.

As you pointed out earlier, police and fire fighters are trained to go toward the danger. People are, by instinct, inclined to flee the danger. I know children are involved and that's a bit of a wild card, but if the police are there I really do believe the vast majority of parents will follow directions.

Now if the parents gathered before the police.....I expect the moms would all rush in and the dads would follow and there would be that many more dead people in the community.

I'm a Baptist; we don't believe in dancing.

Also, bad read. My kids are grown but I understand the emotions a parent of young children has.

Cats....I don't understand all that well. They're more like internet forum participants. Kind of dickish.

Ya i just refuse to play court room where you act like a prosecutor demanding answers, restricting them to sound bites, to fit an agenda. I think it is wrong when it happens in a court room and the person is not allowed to give a fulsome and proper answer. it is gamesmanship and not any interest in the facts or truth.

I can and will easily answer your questions and prove you are wrong but I am not playing the game of only answering within your restrictions as you keep demanding.

What about a building that is on fire?

Fire chief has now stopped his staff going in as he thinks the building is close to collapse.

You see your kids at an upper window and their fate is now sealed.

You, wish to take the risk to go in, knowing you may die doing so. Should you be allowed? Should they be able to hold you down and stop you?

I'll make it tougher, as now we know in hindsight the building stood much longer than thought and in fact you had plenty of time to access and get out, if you could avoid the other challenges within.

See how you go off? Asking a yes or no question here isn't like a courtroom, and no one cares what you feel about the judicial process because it has no relevance to the topic and your opinion on it is ridiculous anyway.

Keep demanding? I asked once. Perhaps many people ask the same request of you and so you think I keep demanding that you write succinctly?

The short answer is I shouldn't be 'allowed' to go in and yes, they can prevent me by using force.

Otherwise we aren't giving control over emergency situations to people who are trained to handle them.

It sounds like I'd be a hero dad if I did that but in reality who knows what would happen if me and 100 other 'heroes' decided to go into an unstable building ? And not what would happen that one time, but what would happen the next thousand times because now the word is out. If you don't go in to save your children you're a punk. Can you imagine what a mess every emergency situation would be ?

Tragic situations are, by definition, tragedies.
It's like the decisions you hear generals make during war time.
Sometimes there are not good options but you still have to follow the best practices.