Conservatives: What are your principles? - Page 89 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

LOL @ fake Catholics. Then again, the church set up a nice child sex ring for centuries so...lol @ them too.

While I actually understand and agree that abortion is often not a moral solution if you believe in the sanctity of life, you really are dumbing a very complicated issue down to a few talking points.

You'll get everyone who already agrees with you to agree more and everyone else will ignore you or throw stones at you.

True Catholics are outraged at the utter corruption of the Catholic hierarchy. The RCC hierarchy have allowed the ****-predators to ruin the lives of thousands of boys and young men.

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09-25-2020 , 10:20 AM

#2203

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by wet work

I'm not talking about politicians bro--I'm talking about that guy you grew up with or went to hs with or whatever.

I have only one friend (that I'm aware of) who was involved with an abortion. He was a young liberal at the time.

In the Scriptures, Paul reminds us that "there are none good, no not one."

In general, I don't think conservative Christians are any more or less moral than liberal atheists.

The Apostle Paul referred to himself as "the chief of sinners."

I am not better than anyone. But I am better off than those who have (so far, at least) chosen to reject Christ's free offer of forgiveness and eternal life that comes about only by trusting in Him for their salvation.

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09-25-2020 , 10:26 AM

#2204

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

This is the example you'll get nine times out of then when you google 'circular argument'.

Scripture was compiled by a group of men. It didn't fall down and hit Paul on the head, no matter what Martin Luther told you.

Anyway, I don't want to poo poo inspiration but where exactly is that baby ?
Seems to be more water here than anything else.

Of course, Martin Luther never wrote or implied the bolded. Very few Christians hold to a "dictation" theory of Scripture. You probably already knew that, but just don't care. So be it.

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09-25-2020 , 10:29 AM

#2205

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

Believing in a higher power and reading holy books is hardly a 'conservative' value.

As far as The Bible goes the conservatives were the pharisees.
Some things never change.

In the Soviet Union, leaders like Leonid Brezhnev were considered the conservatives.

As I tried to point out to you a month or so ago, the word conservative has many definitions.

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09-25-2020 , 11:15 AM

#2206

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 16,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Good?

To make this more thread-appropriate, conservatives should favor democracy precisely because it gives power to political dissidents, including those with ideas outside the mainstream. I'm doubtful that authoritarianism is stable for large wealthy countries like the US - increased access to money, transportation, and communication makes political legitimacy among the mass public more important than ever, and authoritarianism can struggle to generate legitimacy.

On the other hand, democratic elections are one of the best tools for governments to keep legitimacy. A system of social order that provides a feedback loop so changes in prevailing opinion can be reflected in governing practice is useful for preserving that very social order. However, elections are able to do this in part because citizens think they are a fair way to change the system, and moving away from easy-to-understand principles like one-person, one-vote weakens their effectiveness. If people realized that their votes counted less simply because of their lower IQ or "crazy" ideas, something they can do relatively little to change, then elections would be less effective in generating legitimacy.

Thus, insofar as there is a problem here, we should look for other solutions. For instance, the US has weak civil service relative to many other democracies (eg the UK and Japan). One of the main ways this manifests is that the US system has many more political appointees than is common, so that the leadership of many agencies are political rather than bureaucratic. So if you think elections are throwing up too many lemons because of dumb people, strengthen the bureaucracy by making more positions permanent rather than political, making the impact of those bad politicians less relative to the experts of the bureaucracy.

I won't rehash the arguments I made before, but I do really like this point about a stronger civil service and to make the leadership of agencies bureaucratic rather than comprising of political appointees. Seems like a good solution that resolves a lot of the issues that I raised.

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09-25-2020 , 11:15 AM

#2207

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

I thought this whole anti-choice thing was solved with that question about if you’re in a burning building and there is a crying 4 yr old and a tray full of fertilized eggs which do you save if you only have time for one?? And everyone chooses the child proving that they don’t actually believe the lump of cells are “babies”...

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09-25-2020 , 11:31 AM

#2208

wet work

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I am not better than anyone. But I am better off than those who have (so far, at least) chosen to reject Christ's free offer of forgiveness and eternal life that comes about only by trusting in Him for their salvation.

Must be nice to make up a fairytale out of thin air then claim it affords you some better standing than other people

So what's the verdict on your friend?

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09-25-2020 , 11:35 AM

#2209

rjr777

banned

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 931

I asked a Democrat this question a long time ago...

“Why do you support big government?”

He said “the Democratic Party is moving away from that”

This was almost 20 years ago...

So for any democrats in the crowd I will ask again..

Why do you support big government? What’s the logic behind it? Do you really think your tax dollars are well spent the more you give to government?

—-

In essence democrats believe more rake is better

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09-25-2020 , 11:53 AM

#2210

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I care a lot more about women's rights than you do. Half of aborted babies are female. And these female babies that are slaughtered in the womb would become women if people like yourself were not in favor of their murder being a "right."

I also care a lot more about black lives than you do. Over fifteen million black babies have been aborted since 1973.

No, you don't care. You know how to actually reduce abortions, and you oppose doing the things that would reduce abortions. You want to create a society with more abortions due to stupid policies. I want to create a society with less due to better ones.

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09-25-2020 , 12:19 PM

#2211

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Of course, Martin Luther never wrote or implied the bolded. Very few Christians hold to a "dictation" theory of Scripture. You probably already knew that, but just don't care. So be it.

I'm no expert but I didn't actually think that was a main stream protestant theological concept.

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09-25-2020 , 12:22 PM

#2212

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjr777

Rake gives you protection. Try to take your 5 buy ins off the table in a home game.

More rake or less rake vs services provided is debatable, but at least you accidentally figured out a life truth.

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09-25-2020 , 12:23 PM

#2213

RFlushDiamonds

cool

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by wet work

Must be nice to make up a fairytale out of thin air then claim it affords you some better standing than other people

So what's the verdict on your friend?

Sounds like your Mitt Romney esq Cop friend. lol

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09-25-2020 , 12:36 PM

#2214

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by wet work

Must be nice to make up a fairytale out of thin air then claim it affords you some better standing than other people

So what's the verdict on your friend?

I don't believe in Fairy Tales. I find them rather Grimm.

I don't know what you mean by "what's the verdict on my friend?"

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09-25-2020 , 12:38 PM

#2215

Slighted

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjr777

yes. worst case scenario, i'd much rather have an inefficient government program that is trying to help people, than a private corporate program that is absolutely fiduciarily required to screw over people to make more profits. and it's not particularly close.

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09-25-2020 , 01:07 PM

#2216

rjr777

banned

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 931

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

This is a fair point..

However are you aware of the corporatacracy that currently exists in the US?

We have it already so why would you want to feed more into the chroni capitalistic system in place?

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09-25-2020 , 01:16 PM

#2217

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,957

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjr777

As if when you give your money to the private sector to create job overseas it pays u more ?
At least with taxes you can have some sort of return through public services or w.e else.
At least The money stay in the US.

In essence I think democrats understand it’s not because something is bad at a certain level , that means it’s bad at all level ...

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09-25-2020 , 01:22 PM

#2218

timotinbowen

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 977

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjr777

I think the benefit of big government, as you're using it here, is in its protections of our most marginalized populations. Of course this is less efficient from pure laissez-faire capitalism, but it prevents the gross ramifications of the inevitable tragedy of the commons that would result with less.

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09-25-2020 , 01:27 PM

#2219

wet work

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,441

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

Sounds like your Mitt Romney esq Cop friend. lol

That guy's one of my childhood best friends older brother he just ends up at my friend's house on weekends a fair bit(plus I've known him for like ~45yrs at this point)

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09-25-2020 , 01:35 PM

#2220

rjr777

banned

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 931

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Idk I guess your sentiment is somewhat ok... but why does it even have to be a trade off of public vs private?

Take for example subsidies.. I find it extra wasteful to have socialist programs to keep the price of food down using my taxes.

Why can’t we just not subsidize food? Let free market determine the price of things..

I suppose I agree that just because the public or private sector is bad at one level it doesn’t mean all levels.

Also why not focus on taxing the big businesses rather than tax the 99%?

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09-25-2020 , 01:47 PM

#2221

Montrealcorp

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If we follow the concept of abortion by lagtight, maybe we should by law , obliged anyone Having an organ transplant , to add the name of the donor to yours .

A cell is baby
An organ is a human .

Using same concept , if someone cause an accident and someone lose some a limb for example , he should get convicted of murder , a cell is a human life .....

I think like abortion idea from lagtight , death penalty sound about right for that situation as well .
Even for a little toe which much bigger than cells....

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 09-25-2020 at 01:55 PM.

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09-25-2020 , 01:54 PM

#2222

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjr777

What do you mean by "big government"? The number of laws? What percent of GDP goes to the government? How much the government spends? How intrusive the government is in people's lives?

In my experience talk about big government is more a political slogan than a concrete idea. For instance, it is conservatives who typically want to increase the size the federal government's biggest branch, while liberals want to decrease military spending. And while liberals favor some intrusive laws, eg fuel consumption regulations, so do conservatives, eg abortion regulations.

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09-25-2020 , 02:15 PM

#2223

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

The best first step in reducing abortions is for people to understand that abortion is murdering a human being.

Quote

09-25-2020 , 02:17 PM

#2224

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

I'm no expert but I didn't actually think that was a main stream protestant theological concept.

Your post suggested otherwise.

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09-25-2020 , 02:20 PM

#2225

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

A cell is not a baby.

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