British Politics - Page 206 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Daily Heil polls:

Last week: Tories 38 Labour 35
This week: Labour 40 Tories 34

His usual supporters in the press are deserting him. Expect Johnson to be gone next year and replaced by the unctuous and even more extreme Gove.

Quote

11-12-2021 , 11:45 PM

#5128

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,063

Timing is hard but Sunak must be favorite.

Can't see it being gove unless sunak decides this is a bad time to be tory leader. He is young and ambitious enough to wait for a couple of elections but does he have the guts.

I wouldn't write off Liz Trus - expect her to start sounding more and more like Thatcher. Hunt is a possibility as well. Plus the field - who knows what delights are lurking.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 03:38 AM

#5129

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Unfortuantely the future is quite likely to be far worse. We are seeign a rise in extemism,racism etc that is still in it's early stages. I'm generally an optimist but I think there's a shitstorm on the way.

At least you can see it coming. Fair play. I am curious to know what the next reason will be. Keir Starmer being "too centrist" seems to be the latest one. Can't wait for that to become normalised by the right wing gutter press as a reason that hearts and minds were not won. Brexit still "not too bad, WW2 spirit still going Strong!"

Quote

11-13-2021 , 05:42 AM

#5130

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,063

Reasons
1) Climate change in general. The refugee crises aspect in particular
2) Rise of China plus a batshit crazy usa, Russia etc
3) The crises of capitalism and democracy as it becomes increasingly difficult to increase wealth/status by working. The age of automation and quite possibly the end days of capitalism
4) The passing of the generations who lived through WW2 era fascism or grew up while it was recent history

Not necessarily in that order.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 07:11 AM

#5131

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Totes the left's fault.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 07:25 AM

#5132

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,063

Dont we want policies to prevent, mitigate and manage these issues as well as possible.

If we dont look to the left for these policies then where do you suggest?

Quote

11-13-2021 , 08:12 AM

#5133

Fatboy54

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,876

Quote:

If we dont look to the left for these policies then where do you suggest?

Where I live...progressive nationalism

Quote

11-13-2021 , 08:21 AM

#5134

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

You can never marry the rational goals of progressivism and something as irrational as nationalism, which ultimately is pure symbolism.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 09:54 AM

#5135

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Dont we want policies to prevent, mitigate and manage these issues as well as possible.

If we dont look to the left for these policies then where do you suggest?

"we"?

Quote

11-13-2021 , 11:33 AM

#5136

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,063

Sorry I was assuming you aren't in favour of climate change, and dont want right wing solutions etc etc

If that's a wrong assumption then I fear you are going to be very happy.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 01:08 PM

#5137

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Ahh ok.

I don't have young kids so generally I don't give a ****. If fathers like diebitter, you, and that spurs mongrel dont care then why should I?

Quote

11-13-2021 , 01:58 PM

#5138

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,063

There's no should about it. Most of us do care - it's the human condition that most of us suffer from.

Fairly sure that includes you.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 03:00 PM

#5139

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 65,744

Absolutely nothing is more important that climate change and getting the carbon emissions footprint addressed and reversed ASAP

We need scientists and engineers on this now, not bloody just mealy-mouthed here-today gone-tomorrow politicians.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 03:02 PM

#5140

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 65,744

re the tory changeover from Boris. I have a bad, bad feeling the Huntbot will end up leader when the smoke clears, unless Sunak really wants it.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 03:10 PM

#5141

jalfrezi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 13,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

You can never marry the rational goals of progressivism and something as irrational as nationalism, which ultimately is pure symbolism.

Yes. You'd have to be a particular kind of head-in-sand animal to find nationalism attractive when it should be clearer than ever that tackling the biggest problems in the world requires international efforts.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 04:32 PM

#5142

Fatboy54

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,876

The country I live in rejected brexit by 62% to 38%.

Remind me again which part of the UK (and it's people) has a more international outlook?

Edit: Forgot to mention...on the subject of who is and is not progressive...

They (Scottish Green Party) hold two ministerial posts in the third Sturgeon government following a power-sharing agreement with the SNP in August 2021, marking the first time Green party politicians will be in government in the UK.

....Green Party pretty progressive is in not????

So to sum up, up here we are the nuts on international progressive politics and you down there are the nuts on being bampots who post without thinking.

Slàinte Mhath

Last edited by Fatboy54; 11-13-2021 at 04:52 PM.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 04:41 PM

#5143

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by diebitter

re the tory changeover from Boris. I have a bad, bad feeling the Huntbot will end up leader when the smoke clears, unless Sunak really wants it.

simmer down. You have your 90 new unelected, pro-industry lords to send letters to, no?

Quote

11-13-2021 , 04:45 PM

#5144

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatboy54

The country I live in rejected brexit by 62% to 38%.

Remind me again which part of the UK (and it's people) has a more international outlook?

Democracy in action apparently buddy...

Quote

11-13-2021 , 05:08 PM

#5145

jalfrezi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 13,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatboy54

Remind me again

what the N in SNP stands for.

Quote

11-13-2021 , 05:12 PM

#5146

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

There's no should about it. Most of us do care - it's the human condition that most of us suffer from.

Fairly sure that includes you.

Seems like the perfect time to molly coddle your right wing buddies and blame the left for any inaction, right? Maybe we can win hearts and minds by 2050?

Quote

11-13-2021 , 07:33 PM

#5147

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,063

Quote:

Originally Posted by diebitter

Yep number one by far. It's far too late now to stop a disaster but a good chance we can mitgate it a great deal if we really try. We need to pull out all the short terms stops while we develop, as fast as possible, the necessary science and tech for humanity to prosper.

Hard to see the political or public will to do anyhtiong but scratch at the hard choices. All eggs are in the science and tech basket which is a very good basket but a bit like developing vaccines without having social distancing/etc in the meantime (only far far worse than covid)

Quote

11-13-2021 , 07:41 PM

#5148

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,063

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatboy54

Where I live...progressive nationalism

I sympathise with ideal of leaving the UK and rejoining the EU. That's a meta issue though and big policy issues will still have to be tackled.

Wnich way the EU will go politically isn't at all clear. Whatever, the political solution to the big issues of the day remain to be determined and I still urge you to look to the left and not to the right.

Quote

11-14-2021 , 03:41 AM

#5149

joejoe1337

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 16,231

Seems like the sleaze stuff is actually having an effect. Four pollsters in a row have Labour ahead (or a tie):

Savanta ComRes
Con 34% (-4)
Lab 40% (+5)

Opinium
Con 36% (-1)
Lab 37% (+1)

YouGov
Con 35% (-1)
Lab 35% (nc)

Redfield & Wilton
Con 36% (-1)
Lab 38% (+2)

Source

Obviously polls aren't too predictive 3 years out and this is against the backdrop of years of pretty steady Tory leads, but certainly interesting none the less.