Afghanistan - when will we get out - Page 18 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Noooo the deal definitely existed, and the Taliban definitely stopped attacking coalition troops when the deal was agreed to. That was their end of the bargain with trump which they continue to live up to.

If we had stayed and broken the deal the Taliban would have started killing our soldiers again.

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08-18-2021 , 02:07 PM

#427

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

No one is disputing that, before September 11, there were communications among people in the FBI and the CIA about a potential attack being planned by bin Laden. No one is disputing that there were communications among people in the FBI/CIA about potential attacks involving airplanes.

Those facts don't mean that the FBI and CIA had advance knowledge about 9/11. And they certainly don't mean that the U.S. intelligence agencies planned 9/11.

Like many conspiracy theories, the leap you are proposing implies a level of coordination and competence among U.S. intelligence agencies that doesn't exist. It seems pretty clear at this point that information sharing among agencies was poor, which any person who has worked in government will confirm is not unusual. You also are viewing cherry-picked intelligence information with the benefit of hindsight. I'm sure that there are plenty of intelligence memos from 2000 and 2001 that warned about risks that never materialized. Sifting the reliable information from the unreliable information isn't a trivial exercise, especially when information sharing is poor.

You would lose this discussion.

Photographic and video evidence trumps your ideas about how government works.

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08-18-2021 , 02:07 PM

#428

phoneaccount

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 431

I’m not sure if that ^ is serious or a joke so I’ll say Rocco that’s a good post and I agree with it.

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08-18-2021 , 02:09 PM

#429

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

I’m not sure if that ^ is serious or a joke so I’ll say Rocco that’s a good post and I agree with it.

Super serious. But we're not really allowed to talk about 9/11 here.

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08-18-2021 , 02:10 PM

#430

phoneaccount

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 431

No we definitely are.

Please tell us about 9/11

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08-18-2021 , 02:11 PM

#431

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

No we definitely are.

Please tell us about 9/11

I'd get banned.
We can criticize Western governments a little here, but not to this extent.
But Rococo's pure a priori "government doesn't work that way" is kinda lol and definitely not a good point.

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08-18-2021 , 02:15 PM

#432

Joe T's

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

thank you rococo master of nuance for calling out other posters as having a childlike understanding of complex issues

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08-18-2021 , 02:15 PM

#433

phoneaccount

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 431

There’s two points 9/11 truthers can make that are facts. One is a series of documents re: the Saudi government’s involvement in 9/11 that are classified. There’s currently a strong push to declassify them so we may get to the bottom of that one soon

It’s a fact that when all flights in the USA were grounded on the night or 9/11 and 9/12 that bin Ladens family members left the United States on private flights chartered by the Saudi ambassador to the us, bandar bush. The innocent explanation of that checks out to me but it’s a fact it happened.

I don’t know of any other facts that suggest 9/11 was anything but al qaeda getting very lucky.

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08-18-2021 , 02:17 PM

#434

phoneaccount

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 431

That’s some ***** **** luckbox. The site is owned by two twenty something Russians. They don’t care what you think or 9/11. Moderation is much different now.

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08-18-2021 , 02:18 PM

#435

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

That’s some ***** **** luckbox. The site is owned by two twenty something Russians. They don’t care what you think or 9/11. Moderation is much different now.

I'm not sure TD agrees.
I'm pretty sure MM or the Sklansky's don't care what I think about 9/11 either fwiw.

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08-18-2021 , 02:20 PM

#436

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,938

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

That's not a deal. The Taliban simply acted in their own self interest as common sense dictates. After 20 years out of power of course you wait a few more months until it becomes significantly easier to take back control. Killing isolated random troops in the interim does nothing to further the Taliban's goals.

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If we had stayed and broken the deal the Taliban would have started killing our soldiers again.

Of course. And that was the decision Biden had. Either leave essentially as Trump promised or send in a bunch more troops to keep the Afghan government in place. The public had no appetite for the latter.

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08-18-2021 , 02:28 PM

#437

phoneaccount

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 431

‘Leave my country and we’ll stop killing you’ is the definition of a deal man I’m not sure what point you’re making. So if a deal is in your self interest it’s not a deal? No one thinks that

Luckbox I don’t know who TD is but if they ban anyone for talking semi-politely about an ‘outlawed subject’ they are completely contradicting the direction the new owners of this site and, before banning, should probably de mod themselves.

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08-18-2021 , 02:43 PM

#438

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

You would lose this discussion.

Photographic and video evidence trumps your ideas about how government works.

My "ideas about how government works" aren't exactly a hot take. There has been a great deal on research done by academics and journalists about information sharing in the federal government generally and among U.S. intelligence agencies specifically.

And the idea that it is difficult to sift reliable information from unreliable information is just an application of the concept of the fog of war to the intelligence community. That concept has been around at least 125 years.

Last edited by Rococo; 08-18-2021 at 02:52 PM.

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08-18-2021 , 02:44 PM

#439

Luckbox Inc

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Originally Posted by phoneaccount

TD is Tame Deuces, who runs this place.

I'm like 98% sure that he would shut down any bona fide discussion of 9/11.

I do wonder though where you get the idea that there are only two possible points in the 9/11 truthers favor about 9/11-- because in literally every single aspect of 9/11, whether it be pre 9/11, post 9/11, or in the events of 9/11 itself-- there is shady stuff and points to be raised

I've probably forgotten dozens of them.

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08-18-2021 , 02:49 PM

#440

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,126

One odd thing that appears to be going on is that the media seems to be conflating the expected plight of women with the fact that the withdrawal was botched. Even though they have little to do with one another. In other words you have all these people who were in favor of a non botched withdrawal criticizing themselves and not realizing it.

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08-18-2021 , 02:49 PM

#441

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

Luckbox I don’t know who TD is but if they ban anyone for talking semi-politely about an ‘outlawed subject’ they are completely contradicting the direction the new owners of this site and, before banning, should probably de mod themselves.

TD is tames deuces, the moderator of this forum.

Your ideas about moderation might look fine in the test tube, but in the real world, Luckbox would happily (and very politely) turn every thread into a conspiracy discussion.

And he will never be banned for incivility. I have seen him be uncivil on only a few occasions, and those were mostly instances in which someone was really going at him with personal attacks and name calling.

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08-18-2021 , 02:53 PM

#442

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

In other words you have all these people who were in favor of a non botched withdrawal criticizing themselves and not realizing it.

Who are you talking about?

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08-18-2021 , 02:57 PM

#443

phoneaccount

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 431

Then we need a 9/11 thread like we used to have. And for some of us that was a great thread. Plus Deuces is back.

My favorite was Jiggs because he talked down to heavyweight truthers while also vigorously being an off brand truther. God that guy hated oil. I’ll make a thread later with a passable OP.

Luckbox that’s why I’m interested in your views. Over years of posting with 9/11 truthers those are the only two points I remember with merit. And not many truthers even made those points. I want to hear the truth

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08-18-2021 , 03:00 PM

#444

Werner Klopek

banned

Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

Then we need a 9/11 thread like we used to have. And for some of us that was a great thread. Plus Deuces is back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

That’s some ***** **** luckbox. The site is owned by two twenty something Russians. They don’t care what you think or 9/11. Moderation is much different now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

No we definitely are.

Please tell us about 9/11

Im not sure if you're dense or baiting but you won't see an honest discussion about 9/11 here, or pretty much anywhere on the internet really.

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08-18-2021 , 03:03 PM

#445

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Werner Klopek

Im not sure if you're dense or baiting but you won't see an honest discussion about 9/11 here, or pretty much anywhere on the internet really.

And that's because all the truth tellers about 9/11 on the internet have been unfairly deplatformed for antisemitism, right?

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08-18-2021 , 03:06 PM

#446

Luckbox Inc

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All of the Israel- 9/11 stuff (see the Carl Cameron Fox News stuff) is pretty much the definition of a red-herring fwiw.

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08-18-2021 , 03:12 PM

#447

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,938

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneaccount

How did this “deal” make any difference? If Trump simply announced unilaterally that the US is leaving by mid 2021 the Taliban would have acted exactly the same as they did now. I guess I currently have a deal in place with my neighbors that I won’t steal their car and in return they won’t steal mine.

Last edited by ecriture d'adulte; 08-18-2021 at 03:18 PM.

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08-18-2021 , 03:13 PM

#448

Rococo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

All of the Israel- 9/11 stuff (see the Carl Cameron Fox News stuff) is pretty much the definition of a red-herring fwiw.

I wasn't concerned that you believed 9-11 was an Israeli op. I'm sure you think it was a psy op with no particular connection to Israel.

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08-18-2021 , 03:17 PM

#449

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I wasn't concerned that you believed 9-11 was an Israeli op. I'm sure you think it was a psy op with no particular connection to Israel.

Calling it a psy-op might be stretching that term just a bit too far-- not sure. Probably just an 'op'.

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08-18-2021 , 03:18 PM

#450

Werner Klopek

banned

Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

All of the Israel- 9/11 stuff (see the Carl Cameron Fox News stuff) is pretty much the definition of a red-herring fwiw.

You think the "moving company" is a nothing burger? The FBI documents are pretty damning.

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