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2024 ELECTION THREAD 2024 ELECTION THREAD

05-20-2024 , 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by holmfries
I’m extremely apathetic about this election, mainly because the two parties in this country are so close ideologically and in policy. Sure, there are some differences, but my day to day hasn’t been affected by who is president over the past 20 years. I can’t imagine this one being different - despite the personalities involved being such opposites
This is nonsense. The GOP have gone out of their way to proclaim anyone who isn't straight, white, and Christian their enemy. This hatred has resulted directly from the MAGA movement as previously these thoughts were unspoken or only used dog whistles. Now there's legislation: https://www.aclu.org/legislative-att...tq-rights-2024, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769, and women and doctors fleeing parts of the country thanks to abortion being outlawed.

If you know a woman or doctor in a conservative state, a Muslim, or a LGBTQ person, presidential politics has directly affected you. I would like to see a free America where the government stays out of citizens lives. Women, doctors, any religion, and any minority should have a fair shot. Not only rich, straight, white Christians who MAGA caters to.

Last edited by L0LWAT; 05-20-2024 at 07:17 AM. Reason: there->their
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05-20-2024 , 07:36 AM
it's interesting how legislation to protect minors from trans issues is labeled "LGBTQ", when afaik the GOP didn't pass anything against homosexuals in any state. It's all about trans-ness, not homosexuals, and those are a very very small fraction of the population.

I wonder why radical leftists want to claim that homosexuals have it worse if gender isn't discussed in third grade, or if minors can't get puberty blockers, or if boys can't compete with girls in sports.
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05-20-2024 , 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciom
Everyone knows GOP loses votes with abortion talk, problem is that's true everywhere EXCEPT in republican primaries, so they have to talk about it anyway in primary season (i am talking congressional primaries).

Idea if they are smart is they all pivot to positions much closer to the median voter in their area closer to the election, but not all of them are smart, and a few actually do believe their abortion stances, and good ads from opponents can **** with them in say october, showing what they said about abortion in march and stuff like that.

But this isn't too dissimilar to some democrats who have to claim extremist things like a willing to pay for healthcare for aliens, or open border positions, and so on to win primaries.
Nikki haley doing that caused her to poll better than any candidate in either Party in a national poll but not enough to make it to Super Tuesday in the primary
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05-20-2024 , 10:14 AM
To be clear LBGTQ refers to queer or humans with nontraditional sexual orientations -- or something like that. Some people here want to be clear the GOP only legislate against transgender; that's false. GOP is explicitly legislating against the concept of trans existence and hundreds other government intrusions related to sex and gender. They're using policy to hurt people with the goal of using that hatred to capture a segment of voters because they need enemies and it's not socially acceptable to legislate against gay people anymore.
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05-20-2024 , 10:35 AM
To be clear in most cases that is patently false and not what the gop is doing
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05-20-2024 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
To be clear in most cases that is patently false and not what the gop is doing
What's false?

GOP in past has created legislation to harm non heterosexuals.

GOP is currently working on legislation to harm non heterosexuals.

GOP is legislating against the concept of transgender. Continually defining in law sex as male or female only. To the best of my understanding, somewhere on the order of .1% of humans are born intersex. Given that, these laws are wrong by definition.

GOP is also in the process of creating a lot of laws to criminalize or erase non-hetero sexual life choices.

It's maybe an opinion that GOP needs enemies or out groups to demonize and attack, but I believe what I see. And the patterns keep happening they pick a minority group and spew hate. Now it's trans and immigrants. Tomorrow it can be you.
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05-20-2024 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
To be clear in most cases that is patently false and not what the gop is doing
Do you read the bills and legislation the GOP dominated states have proposed and passed?

Obviously a rhetorical question given your claim.
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05-20-2024 , 11:22 AM
None of that is true as a general statement of what the gop is doing

At all
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05-20-2024 , 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
None of that is true as a general statement of what the gop is doing

At all
What is the gop doing? I don't see anything from them except bowing down to their commandant. They have ZERO policy. Don't say border because they could have passed legislation but chose not to because daddy told them.

And, this has been the case for quite some time.
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05-20-2024 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggerboat
What is the gop doing? I don't see anything from them except bowing down to their commandant. They have ZERO policy. Don't say border because they could have passed legislation but chose not to because daddy told them.

And, this has been the case for quite some time.
Right now I'm just responding to his generalization.
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05-20-2024 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
None of that is true as a general statement of what the gop is doing

At all
What do you dispute?

The GOP passed such legislation?

The GOP proposes bills for such legislation?

The legislation does not encompass punishing sexual conduct or women seeking abortion/medical care?
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05-20-2024 , 02:20 PM
Abortion isn't part of this conversation about lgbtq aaaand the gop laws

Trying to protect sis women from having to compete against biological males is not anti lgbtq legislation

I've conceded that there are some far right Republicans who have passed or tried to pass actual anti lgbtq legislation, but that is not representative of the entire GOP
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05-20-2024 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
Abortion isn't part of this conversation about lgbtq aaaand the gop laws

Trying to protect sis women from having to compete against biological males is not anti lgbtq legislation

I've conceded that there are some far right Republicans who have passed or tried to pass actual anti lgbtq legislation, but that is not representative of the entire GOP
Of course women and medical professionals are part of the people dealing with the fallout from antihuman GOP legislation.

The ACLU shows the legislation per state. 48 of the 515 bills are related to sports. The other 91% are about punishing non hetero folks in various ways.

The only real solution to sports is to do away with segregation and have open competitions. It's hard to conceive of anything else.
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05-20-2024 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggerboat
What is the gop doing? I don't see anything from them except bowing down to their commandant. They have ZERO policy. Don't say border because they could have passed legislation but chose not to because daddy told them.

And, this has been the case for quite some time.
I know you know you are lying.

Banning DEI horrors in universities? Protecting minors from mutilation predicated on abusive Marxist gender ideology? Reducing regulations in all aspects of society?

I mean man we can't go one time discussing project 2025 is bad, and the other you claiming they have no policy
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05-20-2024 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0LWAT
To be clear LBGTQ refers to queer or humans with nontraditional sexual orientations -- or something like that. Some people here want to be clear the GOP only legislate against transgender; that's false. GOP is explicitly legislating against the concept of trans existence and hundreds other government intrusions related to sex and gender. They're using policy to hurt people with the goal of using that hatred to capture a segment of voters because they need enemies and it's not socially acceptable to legislate against gay people anymore.
To be clear "pro trans" legislation often severely negatively impact homosexuals so please just ****ing stop to mix the two at all?

Do you think lesbian women are happy with men thinking they are women suing lesbian associations because they deny access to biological men?

Or do you think a lesbian swimmer is happy with Lia Thomas? Or a lesbian in prison, happy to be at risk of pregnancy through rape because people with actual dicks are jailed with her?

Legislation to curb pro trans excesses is PRO WOMEN basically, and that includes lesbian women
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05-20-2024 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0LWAT
Of course women and medical professionals are part of the people dealing with the fallout from antihuman GOP legislation.

The ACLU shows the legislation per state. 48 of the 515 bills are related to sports. The other 91% are about punishing non hetero folks in various ways.

The only real solution to sports is to do away with segregation and have open competitions. It's hard to conceive of anything else.
Can you list what is punishing homosexuals? Because you are claiming that, the **** Is that letter soup?

List how many punish homosexuals.

The rear about trans is about protecting women and minors, no punishment to trans. Trans can go to bathrooms, do sports and so on like everyone else, according to their biological sex.

There is no right being denied , as there is no right to "gender identity".
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05-20-2024 , 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0LWAT
This is nonsense. The GOP have gone out of their way to proclaim anyone who isn't straight, white, and Christian their enemy. This hatred has resulted directly from the MAGA movement as previously these thoughts were unspoken or only used dog whistles. Now there's legislation: https://www.aclu.org/legislative-att...tq-rights-2024, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769, and women and doctors fleeing parts of the country thanks to abortion being outlawed.

If you know a woman or doctor in a conservative state, a Muslim, or a LGBTQ person, presidential politics has directly affected you. I would like to see a free America where the government stays out of citizens lives. Women, doctors, any religion, and any minority should have a fair shot. Not only rich, straight, white Christians who MAGA caters to.
I’m talking about actual policies that have far ranging impact, not proclamations and rhetoric. I don’t feel that MAGA caters to the rich either - it fancies itself more of a populist movement afaik
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05-21-2024 , 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce
We’re really lucky to live in 2024, where this election year the two greatest presidents in American history are BOTH running against each other. An unprecedented wealth of leadership and talent avaiable to the American voter.
It's kinda more depressing that there is a 3rd party candidate polling pretty well, and it is this dips--- nut who has name recognition from his dad.

The GOP and DNC have all kinds of mechanisms to make sure that their nominees are horrible. A 3rd party candidate could be just about anyone. And this is the dude we're rallying behind.
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05-21-2024 , 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
It's kinda more depressing that there is a 3rd party candidate polling pretty well, and it is this dips--- nut who has name recognition from his dad.

The GOP and DNC have all kinds of mechanisms to make sure that their nominees are horrible. A 3rd party candidate could be just about anyone. And this is the dude we're rallying behind.
The depressing thing about RKJ is that in some way he managed to take the worst of the GOP and the worst of the democratic party as it's platform lol.

Radical senseless antivaxing, radical environmentalism, tankie horseshoe positions in geopolitics (what the radical right and the radical left agree upon), but a love of the regulatory state in general (except for vaccines).

Instead of being a centrist he is an ultra radical basically for people who think GOP and Dem aren't radical enough lol
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05-21-2024 , 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by holmfries
I’m talking about actual policies that have far ranging impact, not proclamations and rhetoric. I don’t feel that MAGA caters to the rich either - it fancies itself more of a populist movement afaik
I linked hundreds of policies that have impact zero rhetoric. GOP policy caters to the rich, they literally use the poor. You've got it exactly backwards: MAGA rhetoric is populist and policy is not.
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05-21-2024 , 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0LWAT
I linked hundreds of policies that have impact zero rhetoric. GOP policy caters to the rich, they literally use the poor. You've got it exactly backwards: MAGA rhetoric is populist and policy is not.
You linked hundreds of policies that have only impact on trans people, not homosexuals. So why did you use "anti LGBTQ+" instead of anti-trans? yes the right is anti-trans activism and completly disagrees with the left about what trans rights are (for us there are none, trans don't gain any right by being trans and no one in society has to do anything to accomodate their trans-ness), that is known. And polls of voters agree with the right about this.

If you want to claim "it would be better" if 11 years old can access puberty blockers if they feel like they are of the opposite sex, or that people with dicks have a right to compete in sports agains women, keep doing that, if you want to claim it's a "right" to have access to those drugs at 11, or to partecipate in opposite sex sports, or to be jailed in opposite sex prisons, read the constitution again, or the , you know, universal declaration of human rights, and find if you are correct or not about that.

As for MAGA policies, some are pro rich some aren't. Tax cuts are pro rich ofc. Tariffs aren't, for one rich supplier of a good that gains with tariffs there are a ton of rich consumers (including rich owners of companies that use that good in the production process) that are worse off. Tariffs do not help rich people in aggregate.

Anti-immigration policies don't help the rich. The rich don't pay the costs of excessive, unfiltered immigration. They don't lose service access because of overcrowding, as they don't use public services to begin with. The schools their kids go in don't go down in quality because non-english speaking kids flood them. Their neighborhoods don't get more dangerous because jobless , skill-less immigrants flock there. Their wages don't go down because of competition for the same jobs (at least at the beginning), because rich people either have jobs protected by regulatory barriers, or don't have normal jobs to begin with (being rich usually means being able to live very well without ever working again).

The companies rich people own lose with less immigration. They can't fill jobs as well as before. They have to give raises and compete for scarcer workers. That applies both for low skilled immigration and for high skilled immigration. Very rich people want open borderism, it's blatantly better for them from all points of view and they don't pay the costs of it.
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05-21-2024 , 08:35 AM
After gay marriage became legalized GOP shifted from officially hating gays to hating trans. It's just a new segment to hate. I don't care what segment of the minority is impacted by each law, only that GOP is creating laws to hurt people. And hundreds of them.

GOP reduces taxes for rich people, increases spending, increases national debt, and simultaneously cuts public programs that people rely on. This is bad for everyone, but in their near sighted eyes benefits rich because they pay less taxes and therefore have less money stolen from them.
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05-21-2024 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0LWAT
After gay marriage became legalized GOP shifted from officially hating gays to hating trans. It's just a new segment to hate. I don't care what segment of the minority is impacted by each law, only that GOP is creating laws to hurt people. And hundreds of them.

GOP reduces taxes for rich people, increases spending, increases national debt, and simultaneously cuts public programs that people rely on. This is bad for everyone, but in their near sighted eyes benefits rich because they pay less taxes and therefore have less money stolen from them.
Curious how you don't address tariffs and immigration, basically the pillars of MAGA nativism
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05-21-2024 , 08:51 AM
There are endless issues with the modern GOP. The die hards literally self identify as domestic terrorists who's main platform plank is harming libs.

Regarding immigration, using people as political pawns is awful. GOP don't want immigration reform because they need a subclass to drive down wages and provide labor.

Tariffs don't even appear on the radar as there are many other issues causing much more harm.
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05-21-2024 , 09:49 AM
The gop that cares about anything other than dear leader is largely silent. Right now the most important issues for the right are trump, trump, and trump.
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