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Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars...

02-14-2009 , 01:02 PM
This makes me angry.....skip these unfair promos & more double vpps. That way the ones paying are rewarded and not the cheats
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purevital
Just chuck in a raise every now and then..
u dont even need that. you only need to raise or call if it's a milestone hand.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:19 PM
Sigh... well, I guess I have to try to get into this as well. It increases your chances by at least 30x over a regular tables, and probably more like 100x if done correctly.

PM me if you want to try for a few milestone hands today and are available to try for the 25B hand tomorrow.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9768
I'm not suggesting that Stars set up this whole promotion with this is mind, just that now that it is happening, it's not in their interest to stop it.
Of course they do, just look at the reactions already. The "cost savings" this type of angle shooting provides if any is hardly an incentive for a company Stars size to look at in a positive way.

Also keep in mind that all of these people doing this generate zero rake as they fold, so in theory Stars is losing a ton of potential rake as many players who would be playing regularly take a break to do the fold routine.

If anything, this is costing them money.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9768
It seems like the only good solution is to not let HU qualify, the problem with this is it does hurt their bottom line. I have to assume when they set the promo up, they calculated its cost based on EV. HU tables have a better chance of winning (even without the abuse) and are cheaper and that should have been in the calculation. Removing them now changes the cost of the promotion (perhaps significantly).
Your assumption is flawed. They likely setup the promo to attract attention and celebrate their success. Pretty sure this was more based on marketing then EV.

Your breakdown of the cost per table almost certainly has nothing to do with it, this variation of angle shooting was probably unexpected and they do not have proper conditions in place to handle it for now. Hopefully this will change, for if the big hand ends up being won this way it will cast a taint on the whole promotion.




Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9768
In addition, they probably had to look at the worst case scenario. In this case, I believe it would be a full ring high stakes table of SNEs catching every milestone. It could be possible that with the worst case being pretty bad and pretty unlikely, they've purchased insurance to cover it. If they did that I'm sure their hands are entirely tied about changing the terms mid-promotion.
Your worse case scenario is an impossible one given the number of SNE filled tables vs micro limit tables. Kind of a pointless speculation, as it is like saying worse case scenario is Bill Gates winning the lottery each week.

However, a legitimate worse case scenario is a heads up team of folders winning the 200k hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9768
Not trying to start conspiracies, just trying to come up with reasons why the premier poker site would let a promotion be abused in a way that one of their reps said seemed underhanded (IIRC from an email from support pasted in this thread).
Stop complexifying a simple situation.

Stars has a promotion going mainly for good will and fun and to market they successful brand. Players have found a way to angle shoot to skew the odds somewhat which was unexpected, and Stars should take steps to try to prevent such behavior in the future.

Odds are it will not impact the big hand as probably 100,000 micro limit tables will be running anyway, but why leave this possibility (a genuine one) to chance.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:38 PM
Well the good news is most of the tables that win seem to be completely legit (can't help clicking on them in the lobby when they are announced)
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:40 PM
So I sent Pokerstars yet ANOTHER email asking if this is still going to be ok bc I would like to shortstack 5/10 with someone to have a chance at $5500 or w/e for supernova with no risk at all. Here is their response...

Thank you for your report.

The integrity of our games is of utmost importance to us, and when
confronted with such suspicions, we have one of our Poker Specialists
undertake extensive research into the players' relationships and past play.

I can confirm that your previous message was forwarded to this department.
Please allow us some time to research this matter; it may take several
days if the matter is particularly complex. We will be back to you as
soon as possible with the results of our examination.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation in this matter.

Regards,

Silke H.
PokerStars Support Team


It looks like things MIGHT change but it may take several days? WTF, Are you going to let it go or do something about it stars?
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtains
Well the good news is most of the tables that win seem to be completely legit (can't help clicking on them in the lobby when they are announced)

Not late last night/early this morning
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillgambler
post the email please
From: PokerStars Support (support@pokerstars.com)
Sent: Thu 2/12/09 12:01 PM
To: xxxxx@hotmail.com

Hello xxxxxx,

Thank you for your email, I am glad to hear that you are excited in trying
to secure one of the milestone hand bonuses. Obviously we don't want you
going to full ring tables with a friend with ANY kind of preconceived
playing strategy, however we have no problems with the tactics you
describe, as long as you are at Heads Up tables.

I hope this answers your question completely, good luck in getting one of
the milestone bonuses!

Regards,

Declan
PokerStars Support Team


----- Original Message -----
From: xxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: 2009/02/11 19:05:58
To: support@pokerstars.com
Subject: question about 25 billionth hand

>
>Hey there,
>
>Is it okay if I join 24 Heads Up tables and just fold every hand for the
25 billionth hand? What if my friend and I sat at the same 24 tables and
just folded everything pre-flop. Is this former collusion? Is the latter
collusion?
>
>Thanks,
>
>xxxxxxxx
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:53 PM
wtf stars
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
It looks like things MIGHT change but it may take several days? WTF, Are you going to let it go or do something about it stars?
let me summarize what the CSR said to you:

I have no idea what you are talking about, but you mention cooperating with someone else at the tables so i'll forward this to someone who would know.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alreet
is anyone else completely shocked that this allowed?
I honestly am. Stars usually seems to make levelheaded decisions, but they are completely failing on this one. These support emails that are getting posted are ridiculous.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion5
let me summarize what the CSR said to you:

I have no idea what you are talking about, but you mention cooperating with someone else at the tables so i'll forward this to someone who would know.
The only problem is I reported this two days ago. They sent it over to their collusion specialists. From that time on, I have done nothing but reply to the message and left the same subject that they changed it to!

They don't want to say apparently, and yet again my 50NL HU tables are too full and it is impossible for me to find an open table to PLAY at.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldenz
another one, HU $1/$2... both sitting with $39/$38 on the table... last 4 hands potsize $2

i know what i will be doing later tbh..
Wow a sample size of 4 hands I'm sure that's conclusive evidence.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:18 PM
Long time lurker, first time poster. Here's my exchange with Pokerstars support on this matter, after I won a milestone bonus before.


From: PokerStars Support (support@pokerstars.com)
Sent: Fri 2/13/09 14:12 PM
To: _________@yahoo.com

Hello ______,

Thank you for your email. Congratulations on winning one of our milestone bonus hands!

We have no problem with you using this strategy, and wish you the best of luck in winning future milestone bonuses.

Regards,

Andrew
PokerStars Support Team



----- Original Message -----
From: _________@yahoo.com
Sent: 2009/02/12 16:09:11
To: support@pokerstars.com
Subject: 25 billionth hand

>
>Hi
>
>I just won a milestone bonus by sitting in and constantly folding every hand on 24 tables. My friend is a supernova and I decided to let him win the hand so we could win the maximum our winnings from the promotion.
My question is I was planning on getting all my friends to do this for the 25th billion hand, and perhaps get a group of 10-12 of us all doing it to maximise our chances of becoming rich.
>
>Can you tell me if this is allowed?
>
>Thankyou,
>
>_________
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:21 PM
Ok fine, I'm in for doing it pretty much all day today then. I am a Supernova so itd be nice if I could find a reputable Supernova that wants to waste some time autofolding.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:25 PM
wow, this is so lame


if anyone trusted wants to 24 table 5/10 HU around the 25B hand, lemme know!

gg stars
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:27 PM
The promo was a 7/10 to begin with, way to turn a blind eye Stars & make it Absolute s$$@
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alobar
wow, this is so lame


if anyone trusted wants to 24 table 5/10 HU around the 25B hand, lemme know!

gg stars
I will 24 table 50NL HU with you. For the 25B hand, I dont think stake sizes matter.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Of course they do, just look at the reactions already. The "cost savings" this type of angle shooting provides if any is hardly an incentive for a company Stars size to look at in a positive way.

Also keep in mind that all of these people doing this generate zero rake as they fold, so in theory Stars is losing a ton of potential rake as many players who would be playing regularly take a break to do the fold routine.

If anything, this is costing them money.





Your assumption is flawed. They likely setup the promo to attract attention and celebrate their success. Pretty sure this was more based on marketing then EV.

Your breakdown of the cost per table almost certainly has nothing to do with it, this variation of angle shooting was probably unexpected and they do not have proper conditions in place to handle it for now. Hopefully this will change, for if the big hand ends up being won this way it will cast a taint on the whole promotion.






Your worse case scenario is an impossible one given the number of SNE filled tables vs micro limit tables. Kind of a pointless speculation, as it is like saying worse case scenario is Bill Gates winning the lottery each week.

However, a legitimate worse case scenario is a heads up team of folders winning the 200k hand.



Stop complexifying a simple situation.

Stars has a promotion going mainly for good will and fun and to market they successful brand. Players have found a way to angle shoot to skew the odds somewhat which was unexpected, and Stars should take steps to try to prevent such behavior in the future.

Odds are it will not impact the big hand as probably 100,000 micro limit tables will be running anyway, but why leave this possibility (a genuine one) to chance.
You make good points. You can atleast add the fact that some people think the way I do (I got a couple of +1s in this thread I think), to the negative marketing value of the whole thing.

I can say I considered putting in more volume this weekend just for the added fun value of possibly hitting a milestone hand (I usually split my play between two sites for various reasons, but was going to play mostly stars), this has kind of made me feel like what's the point. I realize from a math perspective its probably pointless to let it make a difference, but when I click on a winning table and its heads up with the two winners sitting out, it takes the fun part out.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:32 PM
If the promotion rules are not changed, maybe the title could be changed. How about:

Heads Up Auto-fold 25 Billion Bash Milestone*









*full ring players, players risking any portion of their bankroll, players contributing rake and those playing without collusion are also eligible to qualify but chances of winning may be substantially reduced.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:45 PM
They already rigged it so that the milestone hands happen at the cash games tables and not the tournament tables so they could rig it so that the milestone hands do not happen at the HU tables.

Last edited by robertlanglois; 02-14-2009 at 02:56 PM.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9768
You make good points. You can atleast add the fact that some people think the way I do (I got a couple of +1s in this thread I think), to the negative marketing value of the whole thing.
Well, I doubt it will be regarded negatively overall, keep in mind most of their customers are not aware of all of what is in this thread.

Perhaps a different approach would be if they just randomly selected hands where the prizes would be given within each million hand series. Make an announcement just before the hand is dealt. If people really want to just sit and auto fold in what they hope increases their chances for hours let them do so, but this way it makes it less practical to do so at last, as they will never know for certain when a hand will hit, nor if what they are doing is even helping.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:49 PM
Damn this pisses me off

When I open the client it's with the intention of PLAYING poker ..... but if this is the type of behavior they WANT to encourage, then I guess I'm basically forced to consider it....

Ok,anybody want to take a crack at estimating an hourly winrate during the 25b? Also, the smaller hands assuming 24 tables by 5/10 and supernova VIP?

I suspect I may be better off just playing my normal games anyway
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:50 PM
The HU tables are sitting out idle until the milestone countdown is close. No need to auto-fold for hours.
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote
02-14-2009 , 02:50 PM
When is the 25 billionth hand going to be dealt? Any estimates?
Unfortunate Milestone abuse at Pokerstars... Quote

      
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