It is an argument because you are TAKING AWAY OPTIONS FROM THE CASUAL PLAYER. Maybe you can say you should go back to 1999 or whatever and do it that way. Too bad. It's too late.

Stars is highly unlikely to just say "oops you can't buy in for 30BB any more mr. fish, and take a shot at running it up to 200BB like you are used to, and then lose it all in one hand to pineapple888". (Which also explains my self-interest in having those types of games. The SS exploit is minimized for the most part, and if I do get deep vs a huge fish, I just have to deal with the exploit at that point, and that's the way it goes.)

And if you don't like that the SSSers still have some edge, who cares, stick with your medium-stack game. And if you want the fish all to yourself, oh well, I'm not exactly sympathetic. And if the shallow games end up sucking, oh well, pros won't play them.

Casual players want to gamble it up, not play some CAP game, or that's what they would be doing now, and those tables get very little traffic at sites that have them.

Well...Full Tilt has all 3, and very few are playing the shallow games. How do you explain that? According to you, all the casuals would be playing them.

I only read the first third of this but a "fish" or anyone for that fact can just move down in stakes. They have 1c-2c games online ffs.

edit: I see, you are arguing against cap, and I tend to agree with you. There should just be 20-30 bb max buy in tables.

Because there are "normal" tables on Full Tilt which bias the casual player towards playing there.

But your point is irrelevant anyway. Point out where I said "all" the casuals would be playing them. Oops, you can't, because I didn't say that. I said they like to gamble, which is true regardless of the buyin they prefer to start with.

But whichever casual players PREFER to play that way now, whatever the percentage is, can CONTINUE to play that way. And I'm guessing that's a pretty huge issue for Stars in making the transition.

So you agree that the tables at Stars right now are unfair?

The only thing I see taking away options from the casual player is raising the min buyin. I'm failing to see how this is a problem, though. Casual players are not going to care much anyway -- they'll just buy in for whatever they are allowed to -- and it's not like taking away options from casual players is inherently a bad thing. No one allows casual players to buy in for 1bb, but no one feels like this is a bad thing because it somehow reduces their options...

I used to play CAP games on FTP until about a year ago and never had a problem 4-to-6-tabling any limit from 1/2 to 5/10. And I can tell you that lots of casual players came to the CAP games to gamble it up.

I just looked on FTP and the traffic does seem very low right now. I'm guessing the addition of the shallow tables and rush poker took a lot of players away from the CAP tables. I do think Stars should probably offer either shallow or CAP tables, but not both.

Just create CAP tables, nl200 and nl400 6-max are already full of shortstacks, that way they wouldn't have to stand up and find new tables.

a casual player is not going to know the implications behind 20bb or 40bb min. they are just going to jump onto watever is normal/standard and play. if the min is more than wat theyd want to spend they will go to a lower stakes. they arent actively making the decision i want to play with this many bb, at x limit. they just know how much money they are willing to gamble with. so all of this arguing back and forth really has nothing to do with the casual player. rest assured they will be fine regardless of wat the min buyin is.

what about a reward like x1.5vpp to 2 ppl who start a new 50bb table. New table would mean more rake and I'd be pleased given I like to start tables !

Why only 50bb tables?

why not?

Yeah...I like this logic. Maybe Stars will just give me 5 VPP for every table that I start...just because...well, why not?

too many posts to read, what's that abbrev? tl:dr

All I want is normal speed tables, with 50bb-100b minimum ...
Fast tables annoy the crap out of me. Shortstackers are boring.

Why have 50bb fast tables but not normal speed?

The shortstackers are really getting out of hand the games are unplayable

changes on higher stakes (NL50)

Ye if they made all the tables 50bb minimum then we wouldn't have any problems, they can make alternate 20-40bb shallow tables for those who wish to play ss.

plz give us cap tables so the shorties can go there to shove every pfr they want to. 50bb min for all tables

Statements like this make you seem ******ed. My experience is that the tables are as soft or softer now as they have been in the last year.

You annoy me as much as christians....it's so obvious you're wrong but your thick skull is too stupid to see the obvious

hahahahah. awesome.

loool

Everyone quit now, games are unbeatable.

I play exclusively 20bb min tables and about 50/50 shortstacking:fullstacking. Games are very soft, but like everything these days, you've got to do a bit of game selection.

My thick skull is very stupid and it cannot see the obvious...

no money in poker... everyone's solid

wow...
...and this boys and girls is what we call bad modding

wycos?