I do appreciate how it took the shortstacking ratholers edge out of poker

Unfortunately, by fullstacking 50bb max tables, you probably turned into a good CAP player and forgot how to truly play NL. That's why I left for Tilt. I didn't want to learn CAP and nlhe sucked. What stakes do you play? There are plenty of fish @ 100nl and less. There will be @ 200nl soon if there aren't already.

Agreed.

All our "complaining" and "cry baby whining" got us was:

1. A fair, and clear choice between short buying / full buying
2. A much more unified player base for NLHE
3a. Pokerstars not only being the leader in service, security, software, reward program, cash out speed/reliability, but now cash NLHE.
3b. An influx of players leaving Full Tilt & other sites returning to Stars due to changes.
4. Shorties still playing Cap & creating rake, shorties now half stacking 40bb (which is fair as there is no inherent mathematical edge in this strategy) still creating rake.
5. More VPP's on average
6. Increased game quality
7. Increased game quality>>>>higher win rates for skilled players
8. NLHE cash games returning to where skilled play is rewarded much more.
9. Happier recreational players (see PS Steve's podcast stating that the majority of recreational players did not like the 20-50bb NL experience).
10. PS Steve stating that these changes have been made for the "long term viability of the game" (see recent podcast). Our side in this argument was not only self-serving, but also for the long term good of the game. Through reasoned discussion, analysis, & feedback from all involved, PS came to see it the same way and has destroyed the 20-50bb tables. This is why Stars is the best poker site imo, they listen to their customers and make changes requested that serve the interests of the majority of their customers.
11. A cleaned up lobby that shows the clearly differentiated games.
12. The extinction of short stackers (we now have cappers, but they are harmless).

I'm sure there's more, but these are the ones the come to mind. And you wonder why we're celebrating.

Silly us. Guess we should have just sat on our hands and left things how they were without complaints. Such a ridiculous argument, "full stackers are whiners".

Also, I'd like to echo Rice's shout out to all the FSer's in here making logical arguments against all the muppet/nobody/part-time shorties/tourney donk/busto's that have nothing better to do than try and throw a wet blanket on the celebration.

Go play Cap.

Or better yet come play with us.

It's just the having a laugh at other people's misery that wears thin. But you're right, I overstated it. I withdraw 'truly offensive'. My point remains, I think. But 'who gives a ****' also remains a valid point, so whatever.

40-100 isn't deep, but obviously you're not aware of that since you're just a microstakes SNG player, and don't even play NLHE. And, how do you know he hasn't bought in for 50bb at 20-50bb? (which i'm sure he has). It's painfully clear to anyone (with a working brain) reading your posts, that you're completely lost on this topic. Yet, you are the 2nd highest poster in a thread discussing a game you don't even play!, and were only able to break even at microstakes when you tried it some time in the past.

You're really no diffferent then Navrark who's a clueless noob playing 2nl that feels compelled to tell the poker world his many ******ed analogies on the situation instead of learning WTH he's talking about first. Actually, you're probably worse, since at least he currently plays NLHE. It was so frustrating that these threads always got so cluttered with clueless microstakes donks ... and it's many times more aggravating to find out the most prolific microstakes poster ITT doesn't even play NLHE! Very little in this world tilts me more then people that have such strong, unfaltering, and delusional opinions regarding topics they have so little knowledge about.. adasfdjklasfdkejkeil!! END RANT.

I hadn't listened to it until just now. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's pretty funny to think back on the hundreds upon hundreds of times SSing ratholers claimed that the recreational players prefer playing with them. If you guys need any more proof of how wrong you were/are, there you have it. PS did the research (remember those questionnaires they sent out awhile back?) and found that recreational players were not enjoying playing with you.

Can Someone provide a link to this? It's not the 2+2 Pokercast is it?

.

Awesome, appreciate it.

LOL it seems there are some people sitting out at the old tables trying to keep them alive.

Don't worry about the NITS. A move to Contributed rake will take care of them.

Well, this part is wrong. There's still a mathematical edge. It's just much less simple to exploit.

I'm just gonna say one more time that I really wish Stars would blow up their rewards system so non-grinders in the U.S. had a real choice in sites, and then breakeven nits of ALL kinds could go work at McDonalds.

Doing so would also *substantially* improve the experience of the casual player, much more so than all this ****ing around with buyin structure.

So let me get this straight, full stacking is as simple as being a nit, stacking donks, and mashing the pot button, BUT adjusting to it is "pretty tough actually". So which is it? Any idiot can do it (you fit the description), or really tough?

.

Also, I just want to clarify again, there's a slight misquote/typo in that post of Phatty's. This part:

- ~@ 2:15:50 "It was an experience [shallow tables] the recreational players didn't seem to not like"

Steve said "...the recreational players didn't seem to like."

yes i understand the difference and know 100-250 is deep but in here it really is more SS against everyone else so since the f and d are close together and i figured yall to have half a brain to be able to figure i meant not a SSer. What was I thinking that eh? And as for the I don't play those games so I shouldn't say anything. Well if all you want is FS players talking about how SSers are scum and such then make your own thread you could call it the delusional thread of the full stack cry babies. But I think Steve put this thread here for everyone. Not to mention how obviously bright you are to not want the opinion of people who don't want to play your game. And if you had actually reading the thread not just looking for Mc Donald jokes you would have read a long time ago that I don't play NLHE.

Ok, so your point is that there are some b/e badish fullstackers who aren't going to get a big enough boon from this as they expect. Who cares? Most of the people u are arguing with here are skilled full stackers that already have win rates and have stuck it out at Stars & won even with poorer full stack conditions. So we get your point, you hope a lot of full stackers become disappointed, just like your sorry a** is. Great. Now please stop posting, u have little to nothing to contribute.

It is here for everyone, but you would think that someone who does not play the game would have little to say. You would also think think that one who does not play, would realize his opinion is uninformed, ignored, and overall not credible. But you are a special case aren't you? Why don't you go to a badmitton forum and write page after page about why you think the rules should not change to favor the server (meanwhile the majority of professionals there would say it'd be a great change for the game naturally).

They didn't like the rathole part of those tables. Not the playing against SSers. If they didn't want to play against SSers they would have played at different tables.

Uhh, what? We don't think that only fullstackers should be involved in the discussion. We think people who have considerable experience with ring games on PokerStars should be involved in a discussion about ring games on PokerStars. Fullstackers, shortstackers, whatever. Anyone who plays ring games a considerable amount at least deserves to make their argument in here. For you to come in here though and fervently argue nonstop about something which you're almost completely in the dark about is beyond ridiculous. Do you see me jumping into SNG-related threads and arguing endlessly with SNG regulars? No, you don't, because I know better than to make an ass out of myself by arguing about something that I don't know enough about.

Sure, couldn't have been because ratholers created a billion of those tables & hopped on first available. If you're right, then I'm sure Cap will be wildly popular with casual players.

Going to bed ... $50NL full ring lookin' like this @ ~12:30 AM EST:

86 tables NLHE 100bb max
23 tables NLHE 50bb max
23 tables CAP
5 tables NLHE 250bb max

... proper

LOL yeah i have read so much of how the SS opinions matter around here. If you are going to lie at least try to make it not so obvious.
And why does it matter how much I play NLHE or ring games? I am not arguing about a hand or correct play. I am giving you reasons that people don't like playing at your games and opinions on what I think is best for everyone. Not just me. Because unlike most people here I realize that it don't matter if the fish are in my favorite spot or not, just as long as they are in the lake.

OK, after a debate of SS vs. real poker players, we've gotten off topic.

What's really important is, did the changes help? Are the games better? To my opinion it really did, the 40bb+ games are much better now. Also, SS now have their own CAP games where they don't need to rathole and where their short-stacking is not a crime.