Who cares about some overpriced seating script that no one will buy that would be hard (maybe impossible) to enforce? (Hint: If you have the $$ to pay thousands for a seating script.... you have the $$ to make it hard/impossible to detect) Also I love tablescanners cause I 20+ table and its annoying clicking through the lobby while I'm playing a bunch of tables. If tablescanners were bannned I would just spend more time to click through the lobby (as a result playing less tables) while the guys with $$ will just use undetectable tablescanners or some other new software. Also if you dont want to deal with table selection you already have an option that split the player pool...zooooom.

Why not focus on:
-getting more rec players
-keeping the current rec players
-making SNE easier to achieve (maybe 700k vpps)
-rake for borderline unbeatable games
-giving us more than a week or 2 notice if your going to make a major change to the site (short notice WC rake change really sucked for people that were planning on SNE)
-I want to be able to convert my freerolls into something else like $$ for the PPA, lobby $$ for getting the US market back, advertising $$ for stars, etc...

Also hope stars is being careful with making major changes.... a lot of us are still making $$ and I would rather have no change made then a bunch of changes based on the ramblings of "poker players" that spend more time posting than playing... Whenever people suggest a change that moves Stars closer to being like PartyPoker its usually a sign of a terrible idea.

i believe the most important part to keep online poker alive is to keep the current recreational player pool and try to attract more recreational players

if rec. players keep on showing up online poker will never die

is stars currently sending to emails to players who have been away for months? they are probably rec. players... give them a small reload bonus so that they come back to pokerstars
if not pls start doing this

whoever reps 2p2 at the meeting please make sure that the most important part is to make pokerstars a happy place for recreational players

Is it April or September month of jokes?

Besides all inherent improvements, need to focus on protecting industry from outside causes - bad-beats, such as prohibition of online poker in some major countries.

Probably online poker players world wide union must be created, with basic goals:

a) prove that poker is sport and fight for its rights to be considered (by general public) as one;

b) make world wide RNG standard by annual certification process, done by WELL recognized and neutral (such as Oracle or IBM) IT company. by doing that two things must be accomplished: 1) show to GENERAL-public-opinion that online poker is not rigged, 2) kill all of the small rooms by making them outsiders who cant afford certification.

c) protect online poker overall interests and fight back against attacks from third parties (live casinos).

Make that union attractive with 1M+ online poker players as members.

Hide your involvement.

the solution to seating scripts and detection is so simple its just silly. if pokerstars changes the way you sit at a table scripts would be absolutely useless

the most simple way would be to make a more advanced version of easy seat and for those criteria to take precedent over manual functions. ie you enter in to easyseat that you would like a seat 3 handed at a 2/4 6max game. if a fish sits and scripts start going bizurk they will have to wait until anyone registered on pokerstars waitlist to decide if they want the seat first. this would make the script useless. anyone could still use manual functions or scripts though. if stars set up the correct timers etc then this method would also create fair waiting lists. i know a seating system that is fair and organized seems absurd but restaurants for example have been doing this effectively for about a century. also if the players were able to enter in a bunch of detailed criteria then it would be super functional and not just a tool to make things fair

imo stars refusal to act on this issue is because they want to use this to leverage a "solution" that serves a separate agenda they have. like perhaps removing table selection. kind of like how they said they switched to WC rake in the name of fairness but then when it was pointed out that WTA is more fair they dont want to talk about it.....its not really about fairness

You don't care about seating scripts that jesus-seats the recs yet you want to focus on keeping the current rec players?

don't expect to much logic reasoning in here. it's quite a success story to have tim speaking like a grown up lately ;-)

as said before: fish aren't leaving because someone sits at their tables very fast. They actually prefer the table to fill faster rather than slower.
Sure, we're not talking about some dumbass chasing a rec that lost some pots to him and is clearly trying to get away and play someone else.

There is a truckload of hypocrisy that makes me puke. A few days ago at a FR table after a rec left some regs were bitching that Tim will sitout next bb.
I decided to stay at the table and see what happens.
Well...as expected he did leave but so did every single player left. And it was 9-handed. So I type in the chat smth like "wtf? you bitch about someone and you all do the same?!"
And they say "oh we were just kidding, trolling with him...:-) ".

And yes, stars is just waiting for us to bitch about it some more and then they'll do the "fair" thing and make it zoom only or table starters only.

table starters only will ruin everything

table starters should be removed

Posted in the cv thread as requested.

Thanks for the nomination but I won't be able to do it this time unfortunately. I will say that I think these meetings are a good idea and I hope that they continue to happen. I'm sure anyone who used to play on party or other sites will agree that it is nice to even be able to speak to someone vaguely relevant at the company about issues at the site. No company is perfect and obviously pokerstars will be worried about how much money it makes as well but I have always got the impression from stars that when the interests of the players and the site align, they are prepared to listen to reasoned views and act upon them if they feel it is necessary, which is a lot more than all other sites and one of the main reasons they have been so successful imo. If the player reps generally come back as stars fanboys, that is a pretty good sign that they are doing something right. I would consider myself a bit of a stars fanboy as well tbh and it's just because of how they have conducted themselves in all the interactions I have had with them (and them saving my ftp bankroll didn't hurt ).

I would like to point out that after I ripped Mike Haven a new ass hole in post #105, he has now sent me two uninvited and harashing PMs. I have passed the PMs over to 2+2 management.

I guess he can't take being called out on his biased and often wrong modding of this thread.

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Edit/MH: Do you mean "harassing"? All I asked was if two of your past PS SNs were two that were used by a particular alleged serial scammer that I have banned several times over the past few years.

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Bhoylegend, ooops you might want to re-read this entire thread. Your, "At least some of those against have done it in a well tempered and reasoned way." seems to forget who threw the first stone between him and me in this thread.

Post #31, me to Mike, I asked politely, I might add, about his needlessly bumping this thread and to point out that choosing not to choose is still a choice.

Post #32, he replys and includes a part about being pro meeting.

Post #33, I say that seems to disqualify him from impartially modding this thread.

Post #34, he set the tone for everything that has followed.

So bhoylegend get your facts right next time. Also go read a couple dozen Mike Haven posts from all over 2+2 and then tell me who is full of themselves.

Furthermore, he raised it to another level today. I opened my account twice today to find love notes from Mike Haven. I have better things to do than have my PM flooded (he would have continued had I not reported it) by uninvited PM's from him because he got owned either...

#1 not knowing the difference between a no vote and a abstain vote, and/or
#2 trying to pull a fast one on people in this thread.

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So if you don't have a seating script you are not able to click on the open seat next to a rec player?

If a rec player wants to play HU he can sit at a HU table. If he wants to play 9 handed he will sit at a 9 handed table. How is it bad that a rec player that sits at a 9 handed table gets to play 9 handed quickly????

+1

and btw it was the first time I heard about the HSMTT vpn/collusion ring good job stars in hiding it!! :P

+1 on Chuck Bass

+1 on chuck bass

+1 for chuck as well, but my bet is on PokerStars ducking away any serious discussion as usual.

and let me add that organized, systematic cheating in online poker via software aids is a non-issue. what we need are more promos to make the graph look better for a short time.

Did this ever get answered?

Chuckie might come back more quiet than you guys expect.

you are not saying one desired effect of these meetings is to gag players, no? quite a stretch. but on the other hand ..how could we ever be sure when the NDAs re not made public?

your turn steve.

I have no idea if they will post the NDAs public but I can assure you their policies on us are looser than some of you think.. The only things we aren't allowed to share are sensitive data/statistics as well as some future planned changes (one of the main reasons being it would be bad from a business standpoint to have these future plans announced in advance to competitors etc).. We are 100% allowed to say if we think Stars is unfair/unreasonable/making poor decisions etc etc (which I don't for the most part).

from what you write you should have a copy. post it. so easy to get these things out of the way.

I'd love to do this. I can speak corporate language and think I could help improve outcomes for both Stars and players on a number of fronts. Unfortunately pressure of work means I just can't commit the time I would need (to prepare, attend, follow up and communicate back thoroughly to 2+2) to do an effective job so please rule me out. Also, a full time player like Chuck would perhaps better represent the viewpoint of the general 2+2 community (he'll probably get hammered on the free beer and won't be the ideal consensus builder but he would likely be very effective and persistent in making clear what many pro grinders want, esp on the MTT front).

If it's allowed to be posted Steve can post it himself, it's not my place (or anyone else's) to do so if it isn't allowed.

Fwiw I would also support raidalot going although (and this is obviously going to sound bias) the full time player point is true as well.

just to make sure: can you confirm that you where at a meeting as a player rep and signed an NDA?

Yes

did you seek independent advice on the terms of the NDA? or are you aware of any player rep doing so?