Look at it from a recreational player perspective. They sit down at highstakes and 5 people sit down beside them within 0.1 seconds. Okay now say you banned such software, and 5 people sit down beside them within 1-2 seconds which is what currently happens today (because not all people use software yet.) Those recreational players know they are being hunted anyways. Nothing has truly changed.

There is a deep flaw with standard tables because obviously if someone sits and 100 people want to play with him, it shouldn't be decided on who can click a button faster. This issue only highlights this fact. The software is a symptom, not the root of the problem. The root of the problem is that situations exist where clicking a button faster shows a very big difference in profit.

But in the scenario you pointed out only the users of these products get to play with the whale. The other good HS players don't get their share of the pie. Since games are extremely competitive at the HS these good players who don't get their share of the pie move down stakes to seek recreationals and the ecosystem goes in reverse.

Alex do you use this product?

No I do not.

I think you are viewing this problem as a false dichotomy. For example either ban this software or not. The truth is the ban would be expensive in cost, and largely irrelevant. This issue had already been thought of for a long time both at PS meetings at before, and the answer long term is table starters. That's why the effort should be focused on that (what is the correct implementation of table starters that makes everything fair and work smoothly -- right now the implementation sucks) instead of this. That's what I am working on.

Also your argument fails to note that the excess players are already not getting "their share of the pie." If you look at HS games, they are not uniform -- some are much more vigilant at staring at the lobby than others. So the same 4 regs or whatever get the seat. The point is that it is a joke that HS is decided on who can camp the lobby better, and that joke is because of the current rules and system.

The e-mail from stars:


As these software pieces are merely executing a series of
commands, none of which involve any poker logic, the
classification of these tools are similar to that of any other
permitted macro or hotkey like program.

We are obviously unable to confirm the exact programs players
use, nor the safety of these programs but I can confirm that
SharkyStrator and MyJesusSeat are some of the more popular tools
at this time.


So table selection isn't poker logic? In my interpretation is this program should be banned already and categorized as a bot, because that's what it is.

What if they remove wait lists to individual tables? You would select which stake you want to play and the minimum number of players seated and you join tables that way.

Similar to on FTP when you click the +table. This would eliminate table selection, but losing that might be better than allowing this software to be used.

There's probably a script somewhere that will do all that for you.

or a script that randomly triggers one of the following actions for each problem:

o - plug a hole in the client
o - adapt the rules on 3rd party software
o - fix a flaw in the adjustement of poker to the online environment

A tablescanner is a bot now I guess, as it joins waitlists for people automatically?

you realize this stuff happens across all limits right? Its not just 5/10+ where theres a vacant lobby and a bunch of bumhunting regs.

I think when you are a fish and sit at 100NL and instantly there are 4 people on your left in a lobby with hundreds of tables then yeah, its off putting and a huge turn off. (or worse yet, they just think all these players are bots)

Poker is fun for fish for the most part because they dont know how much they suck, and their ego can let them think they are good, when you beat them over the face with a sign and do nothing but make them feel like a sucker it sucks the fun out of it for even the dumbest among them, that is very very bad for the games.

I agree with you that the system in general is flawed, but until that gets fixed, it seems really simple for stars to just say "auto seating scripts arent allowed", this is not expensive in the slightest, as no reg is going to risk his bankroll by using a jesus seat script, so long as long as Stars doesnt pull a two faced move like they did with PTR (You arent allowed to use PTR while at the table, but we will let it be known publically on some forums that we wont be enforcing this rule).

The reason this is a problem is because 99% of the people complaining basically want to do exactly the same thing this program does, but don't want someone else to do it better than they do. They've been OK with every piece of software for as long as they've used it.

Those ITT would have more of a leg to stand on and more credibility if you all started games and played with other regulars. As a concerned citizen in the poker community, that's what you would do to protect the precious ecology. Think about it - it would be almost like a form of activism to save poker! Instead of Save the Whales it would be Save Poker -- and you could do it! The great thing is that it wouldn't take more than a handful of you to get out there and do this - it's hardly like holding up a cardboard sign protesting global warming when we all know it's inevitable anyway. If you wanted, all you concerned and frustrated citizens could make a tangible difference over-night. But we all know you're not doing that, you won't do that, and you've probably never done that. Because you don't care about the poker ecology, the recreational experience, or anything else you feign concern for. You care about yourself -- just like the rest of pretty much everyone, including yours truly.

So stop pretending your are concerned with anything besides your own bottom lines. And stop "advising" Pokerstars as concerned citizens when you are anything but. It's nauseating. If you want to attempt to change something out of pure and unadulterated self-interest, fine, that's normal. But don't pretend it comes from a place of integrity or care for Pokerstars or anybody else.

sure buddy whatever you think. bots are completely different. i mean i can be out porking your mom and have a bot running at home but i can't be porking your mom and running the jesus seat. (dont get mad about the mom thing its a joke)

next people are gonna complain about my 27" monitor because i can multitable without overlap? (just rivered a str8flush, brag) I'm all for taking away the scripts, huds, hotkeys, etc but if you allow one you got to allow them all.

bots are cheating, everything else is just advantage that everyone can use if they know where to look.






This x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000

everyone knows this is true. they just wish it wasn't.

Exactly.... easiest, least expensive fix ever.


Idrinkcoke: No.


G00t4life: You clearly are lacking even a basic understanding of this situation. Using your own example, if I'm in the bedroom railing your mom then the autoscript jesus seats me, then when I finish I can go put my laptop on her back and guess what? Yay jesus seat.

So using your own example shows how the autoscript is closer to a bot, while all the other things you listed are not because no matter how many of those things I have while doing your mom they won't help me earn any money.

Table scanner that joins waitlists is a bot, yes?

*crosses fingers for only zoom cash tables*

This would prevent bumhunting. I recall Stars was considering making high stake games zoom only, I'm not sure what happened to that plan.

The only downside is busto players can't rail the games.

obv my mom would never come to your house and she def wouldn't give you the wifi password so your logic is failed.

huds, hotkeys, etc will help you earn money. maybe your just a donk and don't know how to use them properly?

again anyone complaining is just a bitch. like the other guy said, your mad because its affecting your bottom line or someone is doing something you can't do. its called being a hater, bitch, vagina, etc. man up

You can rail and its even better.. for example you can rail only hands where the pot size was above >x bb, and it just shows a highlight reel.

hotel



Not sure if you are serious with this comment or not...or if you just don't see the massive logic fail in what you've already said. Assuming I have huds/hotkeys etc all running while I am in another room not playing poker, I will go back to my desk later and be no better off for having them.

If however I have a bot running (which you said is NOT ok)it helps me to earn money while I am not at the computer. If my autoscript jesus seats me at a table while I am not at my computer, it has helped me to earn money while I am not at the computer (which once again you said is NOT ok).

Not everything that helps you play is in the same category, as you've already said, so quit making these ridiculous examples kthx.

You're just making stupid assumptions without understanding the situation. I could easily purchase this, and then it would not affect my bottom line, but I prefer to have some standards. Having a sense of morality and following it is not being a bitch, vagina etc. and is in fact manning up.

well far be it from me to correct you, cuz you clearly know everything, and obviously have been around the community a long time, which is pretty impressive in itself given you are like 19

but yeah, I dont use a jesus seat script, I dont insta sit out when the fish busts, I happily help regs start tables, I chat with the fish, I do everything I can to keep the game fun and enjoyable for the people whos money I make my living on. Because Im smart enough to understand what long term means, and id like to keep my job for another 10 years. Amazingly enough this is exactly what real fisherman do.

Alobar if PS could snap their fingers and this would be banned, then I agree with you, but basically (for reasons that would take up a lot of pages) it can't be banned legitimately, it can only be two-faced banned like how its "banned" to not use sharkscope while playing. It requires tremendous resources to prohibit arbitrary AHKs from registering, who is to say 0.8 seconds isn't legit but 1 second is?. It's not like bots where there are many avenues of evidence.

That's why everyone who cares should work on how to make Table Starters a good system.

Alex Wice Stars does not need to ban it in that manner. Simply stating that it is banned and is now a punishable offense is enough. People will no longer use the script to join waitlists in .1 seconds because they will fear the punishment.

Sharkscope is obviously a poor example.

Then you should get everyone who is complaining to do the same and there would be plenty of tables running. As there are not, it's safe to assume that you are the exception rather than the rule. I honestly commend you for that, but it doesn't change the underlying realities of what I said. The proof is kind of in the pudding, as they say.

Stars banned datamining. Most regs still do it. They banned PTR/Sharkscope. Ditto.

Don't make rules you can't enforce, especially when there's no reason for the rule besides a few leach regulars who are jealous they can't leach as well as the next guy.

No.

This is easily enforceable, the awful examples you chose are not. It is far more difficult for stars to monitor what websites every player goes to than it is for them to notice that someone is instantly sitting next to any recreational players whenever they sit down.