For this software to be efficent it would need to be super fast.

I find it hard to believe that any software that needs to scan a whole lobby first will be faster then the human eye.

It might be convinient for some highstakes players where hardly any games run so they can watch TV or do something else instead of staring at the lobby while waiting.

some vendors claim their software scans ~80 tables per second.

Logic of this discussion was always: "Me using table scanner etc." - OK !
"They are smarter and developed something better which me doesn't have access too" - SCAMMY !

The whole system of standard games is flawed anyway and the faster it's exposed the better. At least the smartest people win at it now.

Truly amazing.

I don't think KOH will resolve this either. I'd be up for KOH personally but that's because it wouldn't make that much difference to me. If I was a HS player though I think I'd use the Jesus seating software and I would be really pissed if I was forced to play against other regs who I felt had an edge over me.

For people who never get the jesus seat because some other guys always "steals" it from him, a KOH might allow him to get some fish action, but it also is going to give him even more reg action, how is that better?

lets assume automated jesus seating is allowed and everyone is using it. requests have to travel through the internets. this takes some amount time. the closer you are sitting to the poker sites servers the faster the information will arrive at your machine. so the other guy may not actually be stealing, he may just happen to be sitting closer to the servers. or he found out that a relocation is actually worth quite some $$.

see for example: high speed trading.

Read from bottom to top.


Hello xxxxxx,

Thank you for taking the time to further respond and explain your
point of view - we certainly understand where you are coming from
and the potential that these programs may have on the user
experience of our games.

At this time, we feel the real issue here is not the programs
themselves, but the underlying ability to aggressively select
tables to prey on weaker players - which would still be present
regardless of whether we prohibit these programs or not. Ideally,
we would like to address the cause, as opposed to the symptoms.

That being said, as explained, we always welcome player feedback
on the matter as it helps us accurately assess the demand for
potential changes.


Regards,

Jackson
PokerStars Game Security Team


----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxx@xxxxxxx
Sent: 2012/12/19 16:06:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Seating scripts

>
>I understand that pokerstars' policy on this centres around this
>idea of whether or not the program helps with poker logic. For
>what it's worth, I think this is a sensible stance and one which
>has served the company well so far. (That said, I do feel that
>some of the features of tableninja in particular violate this
>policy, for example the option to adjust betsizing depending on
>the number of limpers in the pot, seems like poker logic to me.
>But I digress.)
>
>However, I would urge upper management to see past this rule in
>this specific instance and realise that these seat selection
>scripts differ from tournament registration softwares and table
>management softwares in one very important way. AUTO-SEAT
>SCRIPTS DAMAGE THE USER EXPERIENCE. No recreational player will
>know or care if their sit and go fills up quickly, or if someone
>can play more tables by using software to automate some mundane
>mouse-clicking. But screenshots such as the one I provided prove
>beyond doubt that recreational players feel hunted at the tables
>with this new script, and are therefore less likely to continue
>bringing their business to pokerstars.
>
>Once more for clarity: please do not let a once-appropriate rule
>regarding third party software blinker you from making the
>correct decision with regards to auto-seat scripts targetted at
>recreational players. Over-aggressive table selection was a
>large problem before this innovation, openly allowing users to
>automate this is a decision that could cost pokerstars (and the
>professionals who use their software) untold millions in player
>deposits and rake in the coming year.
>
>Thank you for listening to your customers.
>
>xxxxx
>
>> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:02:39 -0500
>> From: [email protected]
>> To: xxxxxxx@xxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Seating scripts
>>
>> Hello xxxxx,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting us and for providing your feedback
>>on
>> this tool. Your email was escalated to me as a member of the
>> PokerStars Game Integrity team.
>>
>> At this time, PokerStars does not prohibit the use of table
>>and
>> tournament registration software.
>>
>> As these software pieces are merely executing a series of
>> commands, none of which involve any poker logic, the
>> classification of these tools are similar to that of any
>>other
>> permitted macro or hotkey like program.
>>
>> That being said, I will ensure to forward your email onto
>>Upper
>> Management such that they are aware of the potential demand
>>for a
>> change in this policy.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jackson
>> PokerStars Game Security Team
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: xxxxx@xxxx
>> Sent: 2012/12/18 15:26:50
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Seating scripts
>>
>> >
>> >Hi there,
>> >
>> >I'd like to register that I am extremely opposed to the use
>>of
>> >seating scripts, and pokerstars attitude towards this topic.
>> >
>> >(link removed)
>> >
>> >The above is a link to a screenshot which clearly shows a
>> >recreational player expressing annoyance at constantly being
>> >hunted at the tables. I would urge pokerstars to use common
>> >sense in this circumstance and ban the use of these scripts
>> >immediately.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >xxxxxxxx

This is definitely used at small stakes games.

It's fairly easy to spot when multiple tables get filled up by the same players, in the same order, and then the waitlist is full of the same players all in the same order.







faster than the human eye....... wow you must be kidding.


Yes it's faster than the human eye. Especially when the human eye is grinding 20 tables, or in the other room fixing a burrito and not able to look at the lobby.

yeah, but at least we know now one crucial property of this black magic automation thingy: it is faster than the human eye.

I heard it's faster than shark who cuts out of the dark.

How can anyone consider choosing who to sit with and where to sit at a table not to be "poker logic"? This is going to influence every single "poker logic" decision you make at that table. "Poker logic" is such a dumb and ambiguous term it should pretty much never be used.

Are they going to have fish only tables? Players who are playing with the fish are always going to take advantage of the fish's leaks. The problem here is that the fish have 0 game selection unless they waitlist because the fastest auto script is always going to jesus seat the fish, followed by the second etc. The fish will be hounded on by the same sharks which makes the fish realize that the sharks are taking advantage of the fish.






I will say though that the 40bb problem is far greater than this one.

but ..does it come with a laser beam attached?

Oh really :P

You mean to tell me that if I have this script, have all of my droolers tagged and have it scan for them the INSTANT any of them sit down AND auto sit me. That it is not going to much faster than me looking through the lobby while playing all of my tables. Clicking each table and glancing through the waiting lists and such to see who is playing?????

Posts like this, make me feel that perhaps it is the end of the world LOL!

Get real.

I never heard about these until yesterday but hearing that they have been around for ages is not shocking in the slightest.

The ability to scan 80 tables per second? I am not computer tech savvy and it does sound impressive but I wouldnt be shocked if it could do it a lot faster than that even.

Thank you also for supplying the emails. I guess if other people are concerned over this, the best thing to do it also email support at PS and voice your opinion.

I do not see this affecting MY games per say but of course if I notice a trend of not being able to get the better table selection using my methods that have worked for me in the past then perhaps I will also have to look into this script just to keep up with the technology until this all gets settled.

I have to say again though. If " all of the regs " are going to have this software, it does seem pointless because no one but the fastest connection will get the " jesus seat " and many of these users will not be able to even get to the table. If these " regs " are smart at all, they are not going to even leave the table until the drooler busts, so being on the waiting list will be a waste of time.

Weird situation. Will be curious to continue reading and see what others think about it.

Not sure about posting links from other places so I will create another post here and if Bobo feels the need to terminate it, no worries.

I was just looking online about auto-seating scripts and came across this article.

http://pokerfuse.com/features/editor...oftware-05-11/

It mentions that Ongame and Party have banned software like this and it does mention how PS allows it for sngs.

Now granted, this article is a month old so we now know PS will allow this for cash games as well since the posters email stated this as fact. The article does mention that PS will monitor the situation.

Anyway just wanted to include that and some information for anyone who is interested. For me the main thing was that Ongame and Party have already banned these scripts so some sites are not a fan and their support feels it would cause a lot of problems for their recreational vs pro ratio.

Can/do they really do anything about it though? I imagine it's one of those things they say is prohibited but probably can't enforce it. I think Stars sympathizes with people using the jesus seater so wont prohibit it even if they can. I don't really blame the regs for using the software either.

Well right now the way I understand it, PS is not saying it is prohibited at all.

I also agree that even if it were, I am sure other people would still be using it on the down low and I am not sure if PS would really go out of their way to detect it or not. Kind of scary for me because I would hope that they would attempt to crack down on its use IF it became illegal.

I cannot blame the regs for using it at this time either. They have a right to use it, it hasnt been deemed illegal so more power to them if they feel that it gives them an edge.

Personally as I have stated two other times, I just do not see how important it is to have since the point of this everyone keeps saying is to get the " Jesus Seat " and get the best position on the fish. 50 regs have it the software, one gets it......wow, most impressive.

Thats a little of a stretch in logic I realize that. I know that a few other good seats and having position on the fish will also be alright but the real worry could be that a player without this script " will never " have the chance to get a " good seat/table "

If that is the case and you notice this over a long period of time ( or a period which you consider decent enough ) then you also can take the step to implement this script into your poker playing dynamic if you feel you have to take take that step.

I myself do not feel it will get to that point for me but I never say never, I would prefer to say " highly unlikely ". I never really even heard about these scripts until yesterday so who knows what we will be discussing in 2013 as more and more software/scripts etc etc present themselves and we discuss the merits they possess on affecting todays online poker experience.

I guess we will just have to stay tuned.

If you cant understand the massive difference between someone having to constantly actively scan the lobby and then manually sit, vs having some software that runs in the background so you never even have to look at the lobby and it sits you the instant a fish sits.....well then Im at a loss as to what to say.

PS can ban anything they want.

just sounds like another thing to cry over because someone has an advantage over you. thats life deal with it. do you guys cry the same way over having small penises because other people have bigger ones?

i can see where it give other players advantages but so do huds, notecaddy, buying hand histories etc. all these things are advantages that the average player (fish) doesn't know about or use. so why is this wrong but those things are ok?

seriously guys some of you are just babies. if you don't like it go play on another site or play live. some of you are also just pussies and afraid to play people equally as good as you or better. man up and stfu. the rest are probably playing .10/.25 and think your losing because of the jesus seat software.

this is what i've been wondering ever since the invention of the program.....this program can only work for 4-5 regulars at one time....everyone else using it would just get put on the waitlist i guess? and they would have very fair complaints if they actually purchased the program because it wouldn't be delivering what it says it can deliver if 1000 regs are using it at the same time.

I think that you are overstating the importance of the script. Someone playing only a few tables probably isn't going to need to be constantly checking the lobby. Anyone with a tablescanner can choose a new table when the need arrives pretty quickly. Hopping from table to table in order to always have the very best seat possible also has its disadvantages. I'd rather have a good seat at a table I'm familiar with than a very good seat at a table that I'm unfamiliar with.

lemme guess, you also dont think bots are a big deal, cuz only bad players lose to them, amirite? lol

Not saying that your opinion is wrong. For you this is how you feel and its right for you.

For me, I am on such the opposite side of the fence with each sentence listed above when it comes to playing MY game.

Also I saw that this was once a private affair but now people are selling the program commercially? Who is selling it and what are their claims because like ********** ( nice av btw ) mentioned how can they allow their script to provide this service if thousands of players are using it? Even hundreds of players? So you pay money for this and then are just stuck 2 seats right of the fish because 6 others got seated before you? I am just curious how they spin this.

this is what you get when leaving holes open in the ship. time to make a plan on how to stop the waters ability to aggressively prey on the lower deck.

My plans are as follows:

Enjoy the holidays

Attempt to put in more volume since this month thus far I have been a lazy ass with not even 1K hands per day.

Watch some porn.

Come to 2p2 to perhaps gain some more knowledge and at the very least get a good laugh or two.

Have some good wine. ( also 2p2 related since I see whine here time to time )

Rinse and repeat.

Basically the plan.

Oh I would also like to perhaps see Django Unchained and Skyfall as well.

Sledding too. I would like to go sledding.

already seen it. semi worth the time spend watching it. the evil guy is pretty cool though.

I suggest we ban water from existing. It's always causing problems, drowning people and stuff...