couldnt take part in strike.but signed. will be playing on other sites in jan

Nice site.

A way to boykot can be not to play ur regular games but to move down stakes (like under 10$) just for the lols and play some hands there. So PS statemant that ecosistem is better during the strike is false.

Ofc PS have to honor all SN/E benefits for 2016 as their site were advertisted some months ago (and in some language sitll do). As a proud ChromeStar I am all for move down rb benefits to lower vip level players but all of the money that are not given to SN/E to goes to lower vip level players, not some small fraction of it.

Maybe its true that PS has "bad" financial 2015y (coz of big debt) and dont have money to spend to vip level players as promised and that money should come from the profit of the company and ps can do whaterver thay like to change vip level benefits for 2017.

Its hard time to online poker right now coz there are segregation of markets (lol portuguese new lol) and the level of play is constantly growing. I think that there is a chance that the current level of play to go worse if Russia,some big rich EU country or Brazil(just a example) deside to segregate internet poker maret. Until IT,FR,SP = USA join the word players pool, there wont be big good news for us imo.

Some quick notes on the wearepokerplayers website/plan, as I will not be breaking down all the issues with it (since one of the main goals is just to have emotional support of players).

- The "poker we love" list has an outdated entitlement feel to it.

- Nearly all the figures seem kind of made up. Some (like the drop in play in Portugal) are due to completely different reasons (ie: they removed players from playing in Portugal due to legal reasons).

- Most of the goals are too vague or confusing (some due to natural differences in language). Goal number 1 - "Poker should not turn into a lottery" does not mean anything as a collective goal. Goals 2 and 3 are valid, but need to be clearer.

- Pokerstars needs to honor its 2 year commitment to the SNE program
- VPPs should not be eliminated from higher stake games

Understand that high stake games are not particularly welcome by the sites (lot of money moving in and out for minimal rake), so the flip side of this demand may be that Stars follows other sites and simply removes some higher buy in games.

Media support outside of the poker community will likely never happen.


Also, several parts try to have players be like an organized union, but poker players are not an organized union, with union dues and collective bargaining agreements.


"Strict rules.

Every protester should incur strict and mandatory timeframes for his or her own protest. A protest where individuals take part randomly with no structure will not work."


The infrastructure part of the protest is, to be blunt, something that will never happen as posted. It may make others say "great ideas!" but it is far too complex in scope, particularly when the group impacted are individuals with their individual needs.

A small part includes the following:

The general headquarters coordinate the protest.

The coordinators of the branches report directly to the HQ officer:

Branches by language (country).

Branches by discipline/stakes.

The role of coordinators is to involve in the protest as many players of their discipline and stakes as possible, according to the algorithms described further.



Seriously, there are going to be coordinators and HQ officers and discipline officers? Really? These guys all going unpaid? If not, then who is paying them? Again, poker players are not the equivalent of the United Auto Workers.



I certainly commend the effort of the person/people behind the site, and no doubt it will get some unconditional love from those who want to hear what it says, but to actually implement all of these things in an effective manner will be a fairly difficult task, and I will be pleasantly surprised if many of those who say "great site" do much more beyond that. The problem with proposing such a grand approach is that it has a much higher potential for failure than a simpler plan with very specific goals and actions.


Still, I do wish those attempting to do this luck, as I do believe that two of the issues (VPPs for higher stakes if they offer those games and SNEs receiving proper benefits) are quite legitimate.

The site looks good (better than I expected). I have similar feelings to those expressed by Monty above. I'm quite conflicted by the whole thing, tbh, like I was about the original boycott. I hope something good comes out of it.

QUOTE > For the goal of better communication and future input with PokerStars, we insist that two representatives of the poker community should be introduced into the PokerStars’ Board of Directors, who shall have veto over the implementation of changes into the rules of the game (without the right to vote on other items in the agenda). <UNQUOTE

If you think any company would admit two members of a pressure group onto their Board of Directors, without being allowed to vet them AND then give them a veto over operational decisions, then you are seriously deluded.

This is getting a little bit absurd. I want to support the protest and get the changes reversed/delayed but everything laid out on that website seems very misguided. I agree with basically everything Monteroy posted above.

I was on the fence for the original protest and joined because Ansky got involved and seemed to give it some direction but that seems to be lost now.

I'm not sure if I'll be playing much on stars in the new year but if I don't it won't be because I'm supporting this. I signed up and striked for the December 1-3 protest, please un-sign my name from any further action.

That site is a joke right? No one serious will support that if it`s serious. My favourites:

-it’s also killing poker as a game of skill by Casino and sportbets buttons in the poker client;

-Two poker community representatives should be added to the PokerStars’ Board of Directors.

-We will reach our goals: by joining the efforts of 8,000 players, we will decrease PokerStars’ revenue by 20% and profit by perhaps 50%. This will make Amaya management enter into a dialog.

Come on guys don`t be ridic. Also btw. sportsbetting is a 'game' of skill. Probably there is even a bigger community of winning players.

I think the community reps part will never get through too,
not that it would do much anyway
see PLO rake situation

8k players could happen though, i mean i have a lot of rec friends who thinks i'm a poker god, and will probs listen if i tell them not to play on stars

You should contact the site developer to volunteer to be a HQ officer or coordinator.

Amaya's goal: Get rid of 8k players to improve their ecosystem.

Protester's goal: Get rid of 8k players as a show of power.


Looks like the two sides have already come to a resolution.

Monteroy has made a lot of good points regarding the WeArePokerPlayers.com webs site.

I also feel that you have unwisely used overly demanding and in some instances quite inflammatory language. You could say exactly the same things on the site but use a nicer and more conciliatory tone.

The way it is written (the style of writing) is a bit like me phoning my electricity supply company to point out that they have overcharged me on my bill but me using such an aggressive tone that the representative of the company simply slams the phone down on me.

In all honesty, if I was a major person within Amaya and read such an aggressively written piece on your web site I would straight up tell you to F off, just on the principle of not wanting to be spoken to in the way that your web site comes across. You are voluntary customers ffs, not shareholders, employees of the company, or the government.

I am not sure if it is a language translation issue (perhaps it is if not written by native English speakers), but the way it has been written demonstrates a lack of know how and intelligence in how to negotiate to achieve your aims.

Negotiating requires guile, diplomacy and civility, as well as the fundamentals of the negotiating points themselves, and the current content on your web site is rather lacking in the first three requirements.

Guys, wait, we didn't release our site for the public, it was leaked too early. We're still fixing texts, minor technical issues etc
As for the numbers - we actually have access for the total statistics from the sharkscope-like service of macropoker. All of the numbers are real. And Amaya would not be in a position to shut us off if we manage to gather all of the needed folk.

Hey guys.

Thank you all for the feedback and your constructive criticism (especially Monteroy). It is highly appreciated. As my mate stated above, the site itself is going to be tweaked in the coming days and the language on it is going to be slightly altered to fit the goals of our protest better.

Nevertheless, it's very important for us to gather us much support as possible so don't be discouraged by the current looks/wording. We already proved to Amaya that we can cause them to lose money if we unite and act as a community.

I'd like to stress that the very fact that PokerStars tried to discourage us from further actions in their latest blog by saying that the 3-day boycott was essentially worthless means that they actually do fear us because if they didn't - they would just continue to ignore us.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

We have already successfully passed the first two stages. Our victory is feasible, we need only to get united. So please stay tuned as there will be separate dedicated thread for the future boycott(s) soon.

In the meantime, you can join the movement by simply registering at WeArePokerPlayers.com and telling your fellow regulars about it.


P.S.: Give me no credit for what's being done by my Russian mates in the protest management. I don't organize anything. I just happened to be the one who communicates the updates from the Russian community to the 2+2 community.

website reads like a joke -unrealistic demands

its like you guys are throwing as much **** up against the wall as you can to see what sticks...no focus at all

doubt many who visit it will join ... it is too poorly thought out and has a completely amateur tone

PS must look at it and be and be a lot less worried

Alanis morissette will be along shortly to comment on the irony of this sentence

Thats right. It was obvious just by reading the changes that PS wants to get rid of regs, yet people still think that a boycott is a good idea. It will just speed up the process and do AMAYA a favor.

Not quite. If we exceed their expectation (way too many regs stop playing, lobbies get empty, many games die out, no action at certain stakes/formats, less rake in the end) they will start to lose money. And when they do - we'll be ready to negotiate.

So no favors to Amaya if we get enough people on board. This is our goal.

The website is amateurish and embarrassing.

Well, as we were leaked before the release, let me clear one thing. In our team we have a very strong financial analyst who will be ready to answer your questions here after we release our site for the public in one or two days.
But, one very important issue i can clear now: Amaya doesn't want you to leave. What they want is for everyone to stay where they are, play as much as they did but receive much less rakeback.

wtf is a 'strong financial analyst?' and what questions is he going to answer given that he/she does not know the PS financials?

Of course they want to cut back on the rakeback - that's like no brain'er

Again you guys just scatter shot your ideas hoping something will stick

If you 'really' want to be taken seriously... stop posting crap early before it has been vetted... and forget the 'strong financial analyst' ... you guys need to find someone who is trained and experienced in conflict resolution and is skilled/employed as a negotiator... go back to the drawing board- what your doing will not work.... and it looks bad

Amaya stock is now $13.50, was 29.9 in July.

http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/2004...REET-HL-200481

As per the post above, the current approach is not constructive and asking for a position on the board is really amateurish.
You really need to be setting your targets on something else. The major issue we have with pokerstars at the moment is the reduced communication. The way forward needs to be something along the lines of arranging quarterly meetings with some of the Poker Leaders and Amaya senior management and perhaps yearly "all in briefings"/teleconferences, etc.

A big problem with "movements" like this is that the response the first time (when it is relatively new) tends to be better than the support in later efforts, particularly if/when the organizers burden it with a heavy, sloppy message. I looked past a lot of the poor English, since I attributed that to it not being the native language, but as I, and others, have said - the effort needs to be simplified and the goals need to be made clear.

All of the poker is becoming a lottery language sounds like whining. Like it or not - Amaya can create the game mix they prefer, so complaining that skilled players cannot extract the funds from donks is not one that will ever get much sympathy.

The financial numbers presented, while some may have some elements of truth, are complete nonsense and should be dropped. The only number that should be highlighted is how many people signed to take part in the first protest.

All of the infrastructure proposed (regional managers and whatever) should be dropped.

All of the bad propaganda language should be dropped. You may as well hire this guy for your communication

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf



Specific goals should be made clear and kept simple. Better communication is one, and the proposal of some player reps who meet with key Stars management on a regular (every quarter or so) basis is a reasonable goal. Seats on the board, as has been mentioned, is a LOLstupid demand.

Other reasonable goals are why the VPPs are being removed from higher games, and whether that can be changed (personally I think 5/10 is a bit low for that change, but I understand the change because the sites hate the costs of the higher buy-in games).

The SNEs not receiving proper compensation can be another goal, but understand that SNEs are not a huge portion of the player base in terms of numbers, and the rake they generate is not regarded in the same way as that from more "regular" players.


There may be some other specific issues that should be discussed that people can think of now or later, and that is what a better communication system can help with as the issues present themselves.

This needs to be changed immediately. If your demands are not reasonable nobody is going to join. The goals have to be realistic or there is no point.

While the SNE and 5/10 are major issues, the movement would need to be broader than that in order to get support from lower stakes players as well. The rake is almost unbeatable on micros zoom. Now HS players are going to be dropping in stakes, and there is no changes to the rake structure.

Also some honesty from Pokerstars, and maybe request they at least show some data on why they are doing what they are doing. Their communication strategy is insulting.

Also, why not as poker players try playing on some different sites. As a customer, if you are not happy, you should take your action else ware; it's not like the games on stars are particularly soft.

Looks like we're going live internationally on Wednesday - please don't judge us before that, although i'm happy to read any feedback.
As for the content of our demands - our team made a big researching effort analysing both statistics and Amaya's official documents and we found out all of our demands are actually justified. But none of our research is available in english yet and i'm not nearly qualified to answer anything about it, also my english is too bad unfortunately. But i've asked our strategic consultant to join the discussion