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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,503 34.88%
No
5,608 55.84%
Undecided
932 9.28%

04-25-2010 , 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444
How do I get a blue nickname?
Buy 2+2.

That's about the only way you're going to get one.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 04:13 AM
Green would be sweet. Or pink.

<--- feel free to add an under title (like "Stoned grinder"). That would be sweet, too
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
No.

Let's try and take this in baby steps:

1) It is not possible (as far as anyone knows) to prepare a finite suit of test that will check for any and every possible rigging technique.

2) It is trivially easy to create a test for any specific rigging technique.

3) Therefore, if you or any of your cohorts have even the slightest bit of credible evidence that the deal is rigged in any way then probably at least two or three people will create tests.

4) No one (that matters) is going to take any notice of vague feelings that something may not be quite right.

5) I you believe that some site is rigging the deal then you can either show specific evidence that the cards are being misdealt or gather together a large enough sample and someone will process that to reveal the evidence.



People who know enough about statistics say that it is possible to tests virtually all types of misdealing. (One thing you could not test for is if the other players that you see are getting the correct distribution of hole cards for hands they are not playing).

Come up with a specific allegation and some adequate and credible evidence and, if you are correct you will become a forum legend. Like Josem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20
Wiki, your attempts at reason are admirable here, but it's just not going to sink in.
He did do very well. I saw only one misstep (colored in the quote) in an otherwise mature and rational argument.

Damn close, though.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaten Senseless
The respect is undue, it would be pretty easy.
Post a sample piece of pseudo-code that would do this. Or just a generally described algorithm.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99
He did do very well. I saw only one misstep (colored in the quote) in an otherwise mature and rational argument.

Damn close, though.
I did wonder about the bit you highlighted as I didn't intend it to mean that people who have concerns about rigging don't matter. By 'that matter' I meant those responsible for game integrity at the sites and those responsible for framing and implementing the regulation regime - i.e. those who could have a direct effect on the way sites are monitored internally or externally.

That'll teach me to be lazy and not say what I mean accurately.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
We (i.e. qpw? fuego? wiki? lvg? (maybe Josem?)) communicate in that we respond, logically, to the stuff you and the other riggies put out.
Sometimes that's true. Sometimes it isn't. More than once I've seen a newcomer to this thread attacked, sometimes in a personal and vicious manner.

This is a huge thread. A lot has happened in here. Some of it has been ugly.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
That'll teach me to be lazy and not say what I mean accurately.
The hope would be that it would teach you not to be lazy.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99
Sometimes that's true. Sometimes it isn't. More than once I've seen a newcomer to this thread attacked, sometimes in a personal and vicious manner.
This is true.

It is particularly likely to happen when there has been a burst of activity from a particularly stupid rigtard who is then banned and the same day a newly registered poster jumps straight into the thread with a suspiciously large amount of knowledge about what has been before.

Usually these are just what they appear but people really should be given the benefit of the doubt in the first instance. I remember QPW laying into one such poster whose reaction and subsequent posting style seemed to distance him from any of the typical rigtards. I think he had a very legitimate cause to complain.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
The hope would be that it would teach you not to be lazy.
Yes, I've often wondered about that particular idiom.

It's similar to the 'could care less' syndrome where you say the exact opposite of what you actually mean.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99
Sometimes that's true. Sometimes it isn't. More than once I've seen a newcomer to this thread attacked, sometimes in a personal and vicious manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
This is true.

It is particularly likely to happen when there has been a burst of activity from a particularly stupid rigtard who is then banned and the same day a newly registered poster jumps straight into the thread with a suspiciously large amount of knowledge about what has been before.

Usually these are just what they appear but people really should be given the benefit of the doubt in the first instance. I remember QPW laying into one such poster whose reaction and subsequent posting style seemed to distance him from any of the typical rigtards. I think he had a very legitimate cause to complain.
It has happened more than once, no doubt. I imagine every regular participant could benefit from an occasional break from this thread, but that's pretty hard to do. It's like a drug.

The one poster I've noticed who never seems to lose his cool is Arouet, whom I hereby nominate for the Mature Poster of the Year award in this particularly frustrating thread.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Yes, I've often wondered about that particular idiom.
I'm no clearer on the issue after having read this:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/005297.html

But I thought the joke was cute:

Quote:
ANGRY HOUSEHOLDER: I'll teach YOU to throw stones at my greenhouse!
SCHOOLBOY: I wish you would! I've had five tries and haven't hit it yet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
It's similar to the 'could care less' syndrome where you say the exact opposite of what you actually mean.
At first I thought it was in that they are both completely wrong. However, having checked out that link, I'm not so sure anymore that "That'll teach you to" is incorrect. Whereas "could care less" is clearly wrong IMO.

We need a "That'll teach you to" continuum pic in here.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 06:11 AM
Hmm, quite a lot on that page but no definite conclusions.

I wonder if it may have evolved from, for example:

"I'll teach you; to throw stones has undesirable consequences"

and people started using the expression less formally and dropped the ending.

Or, the other possibility, of course: English is rigged.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
The hope would be that it would teach you not to be lazy.
So wouldn't it be "The hope would be that it would teach you to not be lazy" ?


Last edited by LVGambler; 04-25-2010 at 06:49 AM. Reason: i hated english after junior high so..
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
The hope would be that it would teach you not to be lazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVGambler
So wouldn't it be "The hope would be that it would teach you to not be lazy" ?

Not to be or to not be -- that is the question.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 10:46 AM
lol
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 12:52 PM
An interesting discussion. I play online poker for 1 year and try fix it respected the game. I play just freerools and not investing money in the account. All my games are in HM, we can say to what conclusion I came.

1. PokerStars: Who gets in most cases all, and when it comes to the larger amount of chips? Maniac or call station that plays the game even irrational and pointless, but the river it in 85% of cases falls just right, the only possible winning card. Hop hop, I look at PokerProLabs, PokerTableRatings or SharkScope and still look the same coincidence. Always it is a player who has lost a lot of money, which means that it requires constant cash on account. That it is therefore consolation prize. If you already wasting their money on Cash Games in our house,at least there a cure for their complexes with a bad game and winning.

2. Full Tilt: Never Play All IN against a player from the USA or Canada. Definitely you will be lost unless the game very little chips.

Does not hurt me too, because I do not play for money, but it seems to me a very incorrect and ugly, as they spend the time to bother me overcome the sheep that had that opportunity system, which owns an online house.

Alternatively, that I am indeed one exception, and it is my happiness, sometimes even below the average for a good hand so that I can not compete with the same amateurs like myself.
I would also be a professional, if it ever fell on the table cards that are better than the opponent.

My conclusion is this: money paid into the account and luck will be on your side.
If not, you say good-bye happiness
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FileFinder
An interesting discussion. I play online poker for 1 year and try fix it respected the game. I play just freerools and not investing money in the account. All my games are in HM, we can say to what conclusion I came.

1. PokerStars: Who gets in most cases all, and when it comes to the larger amount of chips? Maniac or call station that plays the game even irrational and pointless, but the river it in 85% of cases falls just right, the only possible winning card. Hop hop, I look at PokerProLabs, PokerTableRatings or SharkScope and still look the same coincidence. Always it is a player who has lost a lot of money, which means that it requires constant cash on account. That it is therefore consolation prize. If you already wasting their money on Cash Games in our house,at least there a cure for their complexes with a bad game and winning.

2. Full Tilt: Never Play All IN against a player from the USA or Canada. Definitely you will be lost unless the game very little chips.

Does not hurt me too, because I do not play for money, but it seems to me a very incorrect and ugly, as they spend the time to bother me overcome the sheep that had that opportunity system, which owns an online house.

Alternatively, that I am indeed one exception, and it is my happiness, sometimes even below the average for a good hand so that I can not compete with the same amateurs like myself.
I would also be a professional, if it ever fell on the table cards that are better than the opponent.

My conclusion is this: money paid into the account and luck will be on your side.
If not, you say good-bye happiness
I see.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 03:33 PM
Hey everyone!!

I don't really have alot of time to post here, but i figured I would say a few thing. PLEASE don't ignore me. Oh (l)please (o)please (l)please...

I think this thread is mired by paid employees from poker sites. Their job is to make sure nothing from this thread goes very far. To bury posts their employers might not want to be read by many. To refute any questions about the validity of online poker.

Also, I think regulations for online poker are inadequate.

Whether on not poker is rigged, I assume it's not. I think it is a fair question worth asking, though. Anyone who has their mind closed either way is, obviously, a complete moron(AKA 'qpw'- the technical term for a close minded fool who shouldn't be here).

A clear way to prove it's rigged has yet to be elicited, and communication through this thread is a great way to gather information for either argument. I hope this is truly being done....I imagine we all do....why wouldn't we?

Good luck with your quest for the truth, maybe I'll stop back in a few hours/days/weeks.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99
Post a sample piece of pseudo-code that would do this. Or just a generally described algorithm.
Nobody who has a good idea for rigging is going to post it here, but BeatenS is probably closer to the truth (that it would be pretty easy). Personally, I know exactly how I'd do it, but the antiriggies say it would be detectable.

In other words, I know exactly how I'd try to do it but can't be sure it's undetectable.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoMoos
Nobody who has a good idea for rigging is going to post it here, but BeatenS is probably closer to the truth (that it would be pretty easy). Personally, I know exactly how I'd do it, but the antiriggies say it would be detectable.

In other words, I know exactly how I'd try to do it but can't be sure it's undetectable.
I know exactly how to detect how you would do it.

Prove Im wrong! You can't!
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 04:49 PM
Ya know bs-everything you just said you have said before-more then once. It has been addressed and answered more then once. If anyone is closed minded here it is someone like you who refuses to listen to any logical arguments against your position or attempt to offer anything new.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaten Senseless
Hey everyone!!

I don't really have alot of time to post here, but i figured I would say a few thing. PLEASE don't ignore me. Oh (l)please (o)please (l)please...

I think this thread is mired by paid employees from poker sites. Their job is to make sure nothing from this thread goes very far. To bury posts their employers might not want to be read by many. To refute any questions about the validity of online poker.

Also, I think regulations for online poker are inadequate.

Whether on not poker is rigged, I assume it's not. I think it is a fair question worth asking, though. Anyone who has their mind closed either way is, obviously, a complete moron(AKA 'qpw'- the technical term for a close minded fool who shouldn't be here).

A clear way to prove it's rigged has yet to be elicited, and communication through this thread is a great way to gather information for either argument. I hope this is truly being done....I imagine we all do....why wouldn't we?

Good luck with your quest for the truth, maybe I'll stop back in a few hours/days/weeks.
Your pathetic accusations and conspiracies are getting really boring. If you think it's rigged please post how, as requested. If you want regulation, please post in the regulation thread. if you want to annoy people and make a fool of yourself please carry on as you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoMoos
Nobody who has a good idea for rigging is going to post it here, but BeatenS is probably closer to the truth (that it would be pretty easy). Personally, I know exactly how I'd do it, but the antiriggies say it would be detectable.

In other words, I know exactly how I'd try to do it but can't be sure it's undetectable.
So now the riggies have theories which they don't fully understand but choose not to post them to avoid them being explained thus shattering their little fantasy land. I now see what certian rigtards mean when they say "shills" are "stopping" the discussion.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Your pathetic accusations and conspiracies are getting really boring. If you think it's rigged please post how, as requested. If you want regulation, please post in the regulation thread. if you want to annoy people and make a fool of yourself please carry on as you are.



So now the riggies have theories which they don't fully understand but choose not to post them to avoid them being explained thus shattering their little fantasy land. I now see what certian rigtards mean when they say "shills" are "stopping" the discussion.
Shut up you paid defender.

You work for the sites. I can tell. I will now bury your post by posting myself, because that's what we do on forums.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-25-2010 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99
Post a sample piece of pseudo-code that would do this. Or just a generally described algorithm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGambool
I know exactly how to detect how you would do it.

Prove Im wrong! You can't!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Your pathetic accusations and conspiracies are getting really boring. If you think it's rigged please post how, as requested. If you want regulation, please post in the regulation thread. if you want to annoy people and make a fool of yourself please carry on as you are.



So now the riggies have theories which they don't fully understand but choose not to post them to avoid them being explained thus shattering their little fantasy land. I now see what certian rigtards mean when they say "shills" are "stopping" the discussion.
I don't understand the energy of the attacks on riggies. It doesn't make sense.

However, I can explain why I don't bother to fully develop my ideas and post them here: there's no reward to it. I don't want to rig a site and don't have a fully prepared program that anybody would be interested in buying.

I've been following this thread for a few months and didn't come here convinced online poker is rigged. If it is, it's still possible to beat it because a lot of players do.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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