2 times you will win but the other time you will lose. It just so happens your on the losing end this time.

No it isn't. It is so standard that it is not worth mentioning.


No he wouldn't.

You really have no clue what variance is and how it works. What you are complaining about is inherent in the game of poker.

What is unreal is your incessant bleating.

This isn't BBV, and this thread isn't your bad-beat-blog. Not that most of the nonsense that you post even qualifies as a beat in the first place.

Pack it in.

I will tell you what you want to hear - you are a deeply gifted player that is only being held back because of a massive, dark conspiracy to keep you from winning more than $100. You are heroic in that you continue to fight through all of these conditions to help shed light onto a dark world. You are essentially the online poker equivalent of Neo from "The Matrix" - you are, in fact, the "Chosen One."


I see, so only a single Agent Smith is needed, even though the possibilities of different players (with different results) at different buy ins and game types. Seems logical.


Interesting that you believe a single Agent Smith can come up easily with an automated program that can track and adapt to nearly an unlimited number of conditions, all to keep you at below $100 winnings (what an arbitrary weird and pointless rig), yet you cannot think of the way to exploit this system.

I told you, simply create more "villain" accounts and benefit from the rig, or else document and clarify your theory and sell the "Exploiting a Rig for Dummies" online book to people who will use it to make themselves money.

You would be doing (assuming your delusions are accurate) the equivalent of old school bonus whoring, and what a single player does will not matter once you get into the long term of exploiting the system. People sell useless systems to beat roulette and other games, so perhaps there is some money in it for you , even more than $100 ( unless the online business conspiracy shuts you down before hitting that mark).


Yeah- nuclear weapon research and micro stakes online poker. Good comparison.


I would again suggest you simply quit playing at 888 if you cannot exploit your $100 cap rig Matrix system, but it seems you will continue enjoy playing your marginal game there to bask in your paranoid beliefs, so perhaps the overall experience is what you enjoy with regard to online poker (or nuclear weapons research).

All the best.

Look, I know I'm no Phil Ivey or anything like that. However, I am better than the guy who has VPIP of 60% and 3bet of 20%. Yet I see guys like that, with no skill whatsoever, win pot after pot and get so many sets, straights, and flushes it defies logic. And it's not just a one off thing, this happens every night. Sometimes it's at my expense, sometimes it's at someone elses expense, but one constant throughout all 888poker games is they'll be a donkey on every other table who has a massive stack and racks up loads wins really quickly by just basically clicking buttons. Again, this wouldn't be evidence of a rig if it was just a one off. But it happens every night.

I don't know why you think a system like this would be complicated to set up. 888poker already know who is winning at their games and who isn't. It'd just be a simple case of making the computer look up the winrates/lossrates over the past month of the players at the table, and then engineer it so the players with the biggest lossrate get dealt the best cards.

It'd be far from pointless to rig the system like this from 888poker's perspective. How do they make their money? The rake. So it's in their interest for the money to be recycled as much as possible, as it'll go through the rake filter multiple times. Put it this way - if you take $20 away from the guy who's already won $110, chances are he's not going to quit playing. The guy who won the $20 definitely won't quit playing - because he's winning! So both players are still contributing to rake.

Now think about it the other way round. New player deposits $20, and loses it. Much more chance of him quitting and not contributing anymore rake. Now multiply this by the thousands of people on 888. It's big money.

Don't see why you think it'd be so difficult to keep this a secret either. Nuclear weapon research was just an example of a job where employees can't talk about certain aspects of their work. I could just as easily have picked doctors, accountants, or lawyers - anything where you might be exposed to sensitive or confidential information that can't be talked about outside the workplace. It's extremely commonplace. The average level joe on $25-30k a year isn't even going to know about the rig even if he's part of the implementation of it. It'll be known about at a high level - i.e. by the guys who make the 'business decisions', but the guy running the transactional detail won't have a ****ing clue, he's just keying numbers in as the boss has told him to and won't know any further than that. So unless you're on the board of directors, or you're running a pretty high level department, you probably wouldn't know about the rig. The people that do know will be paid well enough that they don't feel like running their mouth off about it.

Typical BRM strategies say you should have at least 20 buyins for the level you play.

So is dropping 750bb is 'standard', that'd imply it's a perfectly normal thing to lose nearly 40% of your bankroll just from 'standard' swings.

And if that's standard, it begs the question what level do the losses have to be to become non-standard? 60% of bankroll? 80%? I'm pretty sure if a serious player lost 40% of his roll in a fairly low number of hands (i.e. maybe 2 weeks work tops for the average serious grinder) he'd be hugely concerned.

I will give you a single genuine advice post, though I have doubts it will really stick.

I did a quick search of your posts and I see you do post a lot in the beginners forum, but you also post here and in this guys whiny waste of a thread (that just got locked)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...galor-1392526/


You play 2/4 cent poker, and your posts clearly show you are very new to this game. Many people have explained the math of your situation being very standard (in several threads), but you simply ignore it while citing You citing unrelated concepts (20 buy in bankroll) like you read them from a book.

You base your math on you, so you assign a 4 BB/100 win rate for some reason, and when you use the" proper bankroll management" that you read in a book ( 20 buy ins or $80 for you) and lose $20 you think that a massive rig is involved, instead of very standard variance (as was pointed out) or your likely marginal play which is well below an expected 4 BB/100 win rate.

You keep saying "you always get it in good" and when I hear that I know it is a very raw, beginner player that is results oriented, and some of the hands you posted in that above thread show that. You play 2/4 cent poker, so that is not unusual, but the very weird rig you are creating for yourself (this $100 thing) is nothing more than an excuse or a venting of your general frustration.

Many players play a lot higher than 2/4 cent poker, so they win $100 in a single hand, and if I asked you how your weird rig adapts to that you would likely answer that they set much higher win limits for those players, and I would counter that you should get investors to create multiple accounts to exploit the rig at those higher levels. You would ignore that of course and post your small sample graph containing standard losses.

Here is what you need to do to improve:

(1) Drop all this crazy riggie nonsense.

You will get trapped in your beliefs and you will simply play badly based on your artificial $100 thing. Many players have a huge leak where they want to lock in a win every day or every session and they quit good games to do that and miss a ton of value. You are doing a paranoid variation of that.

If you genuinely believe that 888 is a bad place to play then do not play there, at least your mentality will approach the game better.


(2) Post more in the beginners and nano stakes forum

I looked at a few of your posts and your hands are very raw, and you do get a lot of feedback in those forums though you do not quite seem to really embrace or understand or apply it much. Make the effort to do that more for the month of January, and if you need you can always revert to the riggie lifestyle.

Also, go to the various coaching video sites and watch any free videos you can on your appropriate games.

(3) Pick a few key elements of your game and work on them

The hands you post show you have no real plan for a hand. You kind of let things happen. Make the effort to play with a plan for a hand, and when you post your HHs explain what your plan was pre-flop (based on position, opponents etc) and what your plan was on the flop (expected behavior of opponents, what you plan to do on various turns etc).

(4) Learn the math of poker better

Several posters have tried to explain to you the concept of variance and what a standard deviation means. You seem to ignore that and continue to post your graph and declare the only logical explanation is your rig. Take the time to see how the math works, and that will open your eyes quite a bit.

Practice activities like all of the above instead of fabricating rigs that make no sense and you should see a lot of progress in your game.

If you ignore that and continue with your $100 force field rig, or whatever it is, then my future replies to you will be variations of having fun with your innate paranoia.

All the best.

Of course it is standard. That is the reason that BRM is banged on about so much, so that you don't go busto when the inevitable swings happen.

I have just quickly looked in the folder where I save my graphs. Here are two:

lol @ thinking SEVEN AND A HALF BUYINS in 38k hands is significant in any way, you can lose that in EIGHT of your THIRTYEIGHTTHOUSAND hands.

Also, a poker pro is not so dumb to believe he was "robbed" when they run 15 BI below expectation. Because if they couldn't handle completely standard variance they wouldn't be poker pro.

Do you really think noone is allowed to win more than 100$ on 888? lol

Also, by looking at your graph one can see that you actually ran ABOVE EXPECTATION FOR YOUR LAST ~16k HANDS. But that is just like simple facts man, and you can't be arsed to look at facts amirite?

It's not nonsense, my graph clearly shows the $100 forcefield exists. I've not altered my style of play since hitting $100, nor have I changed stakes or anything else.

They'll probably let me win a bit more in a few weeks because I'll get a new quota for the month or however they do it.

While working on your game is always helpful, the fact is that anyone that's read a single basic strategy article on poker is already ahead of the guy with 60% VPIP. Even if it's just something really broad and simple like 'if either card is below a 10, fold pre'. The only way that 60% VPIP players could win night after night is due to a rig, as their hands don't have enough equity to be played profitably under normal circumstances. But yet, every single night I see some of these players with big stacks on the table, winning flip after flip, and hitting their 3 or 4 outers. I'm not just talking about some isolated incident where a donk ran like god for a night.

My problem isn't purely just all-in EV (although it seriously does take the piss). It's also stuff that doesn't appear on an all-in EV graph, like, for instance, a donk hitting his 2 outer on the river after you've put a fair chunk of your stack in on the flop and turn when ahead. A donk calling two 3/4 pot sized bets with a flush draw then hitting it on the river. Hitting his junky 2 pair with a dominated ace. None of these impact your all-in EV line, but they still fall in the category of 'ridiculously lucky donk bull****'. I practically never get a lucky river card that turns a losing hand into a winning one, but the donk will get one against me several times a night. I'm not just talking about stuff that has a reasonable number of outs and that is easily visible, like a flush draw. I'm talking about things like gutshots and 2 pairs that are pretty much impossible to see. Some guy calling your raise with Q4o when you have AQ, the flop comes queen high, then he gets a 4 on the turn or river. Obviously you're going to lose a fair bit here and there's nothing you can do about it either because the system is stacked against you and the better hand is disguised.

If losing 40% of a roll is standard is any given month due to normal variance, then surely it'd only take one month of 'slightly worse than normal variance' to see someone busto, or at least, completely underroled for the stake they play? Or is everyone bouncing up and down the stakes every single month when they use a 20 buyin BRM plan?

You're allowed to win more than $100 if you play higher stakes games. They adjust the acceptable winrate based on the stake you play. It'll be a weighted average method, so lets say you play 90% of your games at 10nl, but go splashing aorund at 2nl 10% of the time, then your quota will be 90% of the 10nl limit+10% of the 2nl limit.

I've not been running above expectation since hand 12800. And my graph clearly shows I got doomswitched at $100 - i.e. that's when the graph goes flat).

Create new accounts to play at a higher limit to exploit the rig for money that matters, and ignore this suggestion yadda yadda. I already predicted this conversation earlier today, and even when I say how you will react you still do it. This is why you are not too good at poker.


Meh, whatever. I suspected the genuine advice I offered would be wasted, which shows why even trying to help people of your kind is a pointless activity.

Best of luck battling all the forcefields, and Agent Smiths out there that are all working together to keep you from winning a completely meaningless amount of money.

New suggestions to you:

- If you assume you should have a bigger win rate then the rig will be even worse.

- If you assume a smaller needed bankroll then the rig will be even worse. With a 15 buy in bankroll ( just find a different book to read to find that) you would have lost 50% of your bankroll instead of around 35%!!! That will prove your fabricated rig even more in your mind so do not be afraid to tweak the underlying assumptions that have nothing to do with the actual math (variance, standard deviations, etc.) to suit your needs of the moment.


- Selectively remember your bad beats (even if you played them badly) to validate your beliefs.

- If you find you won more than $100 all you need to do is adjust the force field component to a new figure , say $150. Never be afraid to adjust your underlying conditions to suit your needs of the moment, and simply say they created the rig to be adaptable or something.


I genuinely hope you will follow my new advice and you should have the poker future you truly deserve.

All the best.

Your Graph clearly shows nothing like that. That is like saying noone can win in poker and showing a single losing graph as evidence. You see patterns in the noise, it's in the nature of poker that graphs go up and down; more up for winning players, more down for losing players. Even Phil Ivey has downswings, how exactly are you entitled to win steadily?

You really think you need to alter your style of play or whatever for your results to vary? Good players have downswings and bad players have upswings. To think your results should be consistent is a massive misconception, no poker player in the world has a constant winrate.

1. You have been ~400 bb above ev after ~10000 hands, and one of your arguments is that being away 750 bb from the mean after 38k hands is not possible without a rig?

2. After ca. 21 k hands you are more below ev than after 38k hands. That means that you ran above ev for the exact timeframe the "100$ forcefield" is included in.

Basically, yes.

Why do you think the concept of being 'rolled for a stake' exists in the first place ?

LOL LOL Wait, so it's rigged when you lose as a favorite, but also when you lose as a massive dog? Good, since most of the boring **** you post isn't even bad beats, it's a terrible player whining about his terrible plays not working.
Look those donks up on PTR sometime, I'd be amazed if any of them were doing better than -10bb/100. 20 buyins is the bare minimum for a reason. Pros tend to have 100+ buyin bankrolls to avoid having to move around in stakes during downswings.

Poker is not the game for you. You don't have what it takes, mentally.

A rational human being would have asked themselves questions by now. Why do you keep on losing ? Why does it affect you so much when it happens ? Why when you are posting on the biggest poker site on the internet does everyone laugh at you, when they don't laugh at everyone else ?

The problem is with you.

You need to stop playing this game that you have shown that you are just terrible at, then you will be able to stop crying like a little girl all the time.

Or take the time and trouble to understand and improve at this game like thousands of other players do on 2+2.

Another bad beat story. Single hands can never be proof of anything, if you do not get this simple concept then you are too dumb to win at poker anyway.

Even you get bad beats, cope with it.

This is the riggie thread, not the annoying bitches that have no clue and can not stop whining about standard beats thread. Please go back to bbv.

Lol did anyone check the USPTO site for 888's buyin-weighted profit cap force field algorithm?

1 in 5 event happens, confirmed rigged.

When that 1 in 5 event happens 4 in 5 times, yeah.

And also, it's the fact it's ALWAYS the biggest ****ing donk on the entire table who benefits. This idiot first limps UTG with a 5 6 offsuit then shoves over a raise.

Yeah the other 2 villains play was also terrible, but not quite 'as' bad. Clearly the UTG donk was down too much money so 888 decided to give him his good luck to fill his quota of wins and make sure he doesn't end up down too much this month.

Did I miss where you posted the evidence of this ?

Posting bad beats and crying about them is a futile exercise. It is boring to everyone else, and is doesn't help you either.

Well the other 4 in 5 times would be included in the 750BB 888poker owes me (now more like 850BB). I could post more hands where I got sucked out on. Many more.

The question is, how many times does it need to happen before it stops been a 'bad beat' and starts becoming 'organised conspiracy'. I'd almost be at 10nl by now if it weren't for 888 constantly stealing my roll. It's a big gap between EV and my actual winnings, not just some tiny thing easily explained by one suckout.

Except it wasn't a 1 in 5 event. All the money was in pre 4 ways, you win there 31% of the time, in fact the dude with J8 suited had the best equity out of the four specific hands that got all in pre, just don't let the facts get in the way of your theory though

( cos he's looking at the 20% that 56 wins rather than his own equity in the hand)

Screw the BR management, move up to where they respect your raises.

You really think you are entitled to win constantly? How?

I hate to break it to you, but there are world class players who run bad for months. Break even stretches of 1M hands for winning players are not unheard of. Being 8 buyins below all in ev in like 40k hands is standard, and freaking out because of that is dumb and childish.

And that is proven long term winners. You like to ignore that thousands of players ran as bad or worse than you, instead you babble about "stealing", "robbing" and that your graph is "proof".

Some research about the game (e. g. variance simulators) could show you exactly that. The fact that you can not believe that and prefer to explain variance with "organised conspiracy" shows that you have no clue of maths (like every single riggie, what a coincidence) and are mentally not capable to play poker.

Oh get a grip, we both know anyone pushing all in with J8 preflop is a donk of all donks. The only reason we were tied for equity was because the other donk held one of my outs (K7).

But the biggest donk of all is the idiot who limped UTG with 65o, then shoved over a raise. And look what happens? He gets rewarded for his absolutely ridiculous play. 888 even have him flop the nuts!

I don't expect to win these more than 32% of the time. But I NEVER win these kinds of pots, and then I lose plenty that I'm a clear favourite in too.

I've just been looking through my pokertracker, and one thing I've noticed is that I lose the most between 8pm-10pm at night. Makes sense when you think about it, as that's the sort of time the rec donks will be playing, after getting home from the day job and eating dinner. More evidence of 888 helping the donks out. My winrate is positive during the daytime/early hours of the morning.

The amount of bull**** that goes on online shows it's obviously rigged.

For example - online, I've been involved in AA vs KK many times. That's never happened in a live game. And these are the kind of live games which are just played for fun - you know, everyones having a few drinks, orders a few pizzas, the buyin is low, and it's as much about sitting down with your friends and having a good night as it is about making money. So you always get to see the cards your villain had, there's none of this muck your hand at the river stuff. Never seen AA vs KK. If I played a few hours of poker online now, I could almost guarantee I'd see it at some point.

The standard of proof you demand of 'riggies' is far too high. Even if I showed you 100 times of AA been sucked out on or outdrawn in 100 hands, you'd still tell me that was just variance. What would constitute 'proof' in your eyes that 888 is rigging the game?

It's not just about all in EV. It's about villain having 2 pair when you make top pair. It's about him always hitting his flush on the river with the same card that gives you a straight. It's about overpair vs overpair bull****. It's about some donk calling you down with middle pair when you have top pair, but then hitting his trips on the river. All this stuff doesn't impact all in EV but it damn well impacts your winrate. But yet the reverse never happens, providing you've hit your monthly quota of winnings on 888 of course.

See, I was down to $89 in winnings just now. I'm back up to $96 now because I had gone below my $100 quota. When I get over $100 they'll push me down again, I just know it.