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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,503 34.88%
No
5,607 55.84%
Undecided
932 9.28%

05-03-2011 , 03:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
It's funny that you continually claim all the credit for this as if you were some sort of one-man crusader.
It was a one man effort when he started and he was the person almost solely responsible for bringing the site to book.

He had to take all the ridicule that riggies here get for a short time.

The reason he only had to put up with it for a short time was because he rapidly got the necessary evidence and knuckled down and did the appropriate analyses to show that the truly was something amiss.

Now he has the utmost respect from all players here who are aware of the story because he actually did something.

His activities also prove that if a site is really up to no good, the truth will come out and their reputation and customer base will take a dive.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
It was a one man effort when he started and he was the person almost solely responsible for bringing the site to book.
So Josem = crazymarco?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
So Josem = crazymarco?
Wat?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
So Josem = crazymarco?
No idea - you'd have to ask him.

(I suspect: "not", though.)
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
(I suspect: "not", though.)
I, also, suspect he wasn't one of the players involved who brought the whole thing to light, yet he continually claims all the credit.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkus63
Wat?
What does 'wat' mean?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
I, also, suspect he wasn't one of the players involved who brought the whole thing to light, yet he continually claims all the credit.
He doesn't 'claim all the credit'.

He may, quite reasonably, mention that he played some part in the proceedings.

In fact, he was the prime mover.

It is most of the rest of the poker community that are more than happy to give him most of the credit for bringing the scandal to light for the very simple reason that he did most of the work.

Unlike the current crop of whining, mewling, malcontents who do nothing but libel people and companies without evidence of any wrongdoing and rely on screaming 'shill' at anyone who calls them out on their dishonourable behaviour, MJ actually pursued a logical approach: gathering evidence and analysing it.

Once he'd done that others willingly helped by confirming his analyses.

Your trying to badmouth the one person who has actually used evidence and statistics to expose malfeasance by a site is doing nothing more than showing yourself up as a pathetic, mealy-mouthed whiner who hasn't a clue.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
What does 'wat' mean?


If you are really such a cretin that you cannot work it out for yourself; it's a shorthand way of saying: "What is this idiot talking about".
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 04:55 AM
Seriously, you are such a tellbox! You may as well be playing your cards face up.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
Seriously, you are such a tellbox! You may as well be playing your cards face up.
Conditio sine qua non.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 05:03 AM
Latine loqui coactus sum.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
Latine loqui coactus sum.
Well, go ahead.

I'm sure you'll make as little sense as you do in English.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
It's funny that you continually claim all the credit for this as if you were some sort of one-man crusader.
No, I did not claim all the credit for uncovering cheating or the events at Absolute Poker. All I claimed is that I proved that it happened with 850 hands.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
So Josem = crazymarco?
No.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
...It is most of the rest of the poker community that are more than happy to give him most of the credit for bringing the scandal to light for the very simple reason that he did most of the work....
I did not do most of the work to uncovering the cheating at AP/UB. All I did was prove that it happened using some fairly simple mathematics and MS Excel. I then translated from the technical mathematical stuff into easy-to-understand English.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem
I did not do most of the work to uncovering the cheating at AP/UB. All I did was prove that it happened using some fairly simple mathematics and MS Excel. I then translated from the technical mathematical stuff into easy-to-understand English.
OK, if you want to be picky: all the important work.

Or, to put it another way, the 'pivotal' work.

Whatever, the mears idiot is trying to accuse you of something you don't do in his increasingly desperate attempts to throw mud at anyone who won't toe the riggie line.

Of course, with his lack of credible evidence or cogent argument I suppose that's all he's got.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Rigtards realize that online poker is definitely rigged because its obvious that this is the case. (If you actually play that is).

Those of us shills defending online poker usually dont play but believe that it is probably not rigged even though there is not a shred of evidence that this is the case.
I think THIS is what you really wanted to say.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
I think THIS is what you really wanted
to say.
Oh, hi there BR! Good morning! Are you ready to reply to my questions to you yet? Is there a reason for your silence?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Oh, hi there BR! Good morning! Are you ready to reply to my questions to you yet? Is there a reason for your silence?
Hi Arouet.

What is this question that BR seems to keep ignoring? Why do you suppose he keeps ignoring it? Is it a difficult question?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Oh, hi there BR! Good morning! Are you ready to reply to my questions to you yet? Is there a reason for your silence?
What is the use in responding to a shill or ignorant dreamer anymore? Dont need to read about "its variance, or you see more hands online, or hand histories will prove its not rigged" b.s.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkus63
Hi Arouet.

What is this question that BR seems to keep ignoring? Why do you suppose he keeps ignoring it? Is it a difficult question?
Not dififcult questions at all. Bt they go to the heart of one's approach to this issue. I'll repost it again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
It is not the same. Any rig that would be detectable just by watching would show up in bright lights on an analysis of a significant sample. No one has been able to demonstrate this.

Human beings have evolved to notice patterns. But we do it far from perfectly. There is a logical fallacy called the confirmation bias which applies very strongly here. Essentially, it is that we tend to recall the hits, and forget about the misses. Add to that that this type of study requires statistical analysis to determine whether the odds are off, and you have a situation that makes casual observing a very poor measure of accuracy.

You can test this yourself. Play a 1000 hands and pick something to observe. Do it normally, as you have been doing, don't change your habits now. then load your hands into a tracker and see how your casual observations measured up. I'll bet that you missed a lot.

If you disagree, I'd like to hear why.
The reason the riggies ignore it is because it would acknowledge that they have not approached this question from a critical standpoint. They have no explanation for why when analysed rigourously, their observations at the table don't seem to pan out.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Not dififcult questions at all. Bt they go to the heart of one's approach to this issue. I'll repost it again:


The reason the riggies ignore it is because it would acknowledge that they have not approached this question from a critical standpoint. They have no explanation for why when analysed rigourously, their observations at the table don't seem to pan out.
You havent played one hand online, have you? Which site do you work for?

Last edited by blatantlyrigged; 05-03-2011 at 09:57 AM. Reason: addtion
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Not dififcult questions at all. Bt they go to the heart of one's approach to this issue. I'll repost it again:


The reason the riggies ignore it is because it would acknowledge that they have not approached this question from a critical standpoint. They have no explanation for why when analysed rigourously, their observations at the table don't seem to pan out.
WRONG
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 10:03 AM
I have played millions of hands online at many different rooms, and I work for my own coaching/staking site with 2 partners. You and others can still believe I work for one of the poker sites as well if you like, I encourage that type of paranoid based conspiracy thinking.

With that in mind I ask you the exact same question same questions Arouet asks, and I do this simply to see the way you ignore the topic from a different type of shill. Since you are a silly throwaway gimmick that gets way too much direct attention from my fellow shills, this will be pretty much the only time I ever directly acknowledge you as you take away valuable time that can be spent with the real paranoid crowd of squirrels and murder riggies.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-03-2011 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
This is something I have brought up before because it's is perfectly obvious that you can prove a negative.

It isn't even as simple as saying it's just a matter of scope because there, for example, are infinite number of integers and yet we can prove that no even integers other than two are prime. (By induction is we wish ).

The situation is, in reality, simply that it is impractical to completely prove that OLP is not rigged because of the vast number of permutations of methods of rigging that the riggies come up with.

Even if we could it would be pointless because the riggies would do one of the following:

1) Attack the integrity of those who developed the method
2) Attack the integrity of the data
3) Attack the integrity of those who programmed the test
4) Attack the integrity of those carrying out the test
5) Attack the integrity of those reporting the results

or

"All of the above".
The problem is the notion that it is necessarily much easier to prove that it is rigged while it is much more difficult to prove that it is not. If you conduct a test that fails to prove that it is rigged there are still an infinite number of tests you could still try to find out if it is rigged, just as there are an infinite number of tests to find out it isn't. Each individual test confirms in and of itself, to that extent, that it is or isn't rigged. Period. Riggies being stubborn does not make it harder to prove are disprove anything, it merely makes them harder to satisfy or communicate constructively with etc. Pandering to a riggies demands it what makes scope the issue, and it really is made an issue when peoples start doing so and saying things like you can't prove a negative.
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