I think that if you get a "big enough" sample size (enough depending on what you're specifically testing for) the missing info for non-SD hands doesn't matter because you analyze the times where it DID go to showdown.

For instance, in your example, if you're trying to test for making trips on the river with a flopped pair, you can see if the percentages play out from the times the hand does go to showdown.

You can do stuff with non-SD hands as well, like how often the board pairs/hits 3 to a flush/etc. compared to mathematical expectation, you don't need hole cards for that. I'm not a statistician at all, but that's what logic tells me.

Lol nice one Wiki.

Josem, whilst I do not agree with everything you say... Kudos for that.

this, imo.

There will be some small effects caused by card removal, but you can adjust for them.

For example, check this one out:http://www.spadebidder.com/flop-analysis/part2/

It is 0.2% more likely that a 'Two' will come on the flop than an 'Ace' as a result of these effects.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...ulette-926830/

This was posted by a riggie who dabbled in here.

Appears live casinos are rigged as well, patterns everywhere! Self regulated US casinos as well with special magnets.

I can't wait until US legislation to get some really fantastic US is in on it riggie theories.

Is it just me or does that photo in his live poker thread actually seem like reasonable evidence that there may be something wrong with the roulette at the casino in question, assuming that it is true and unedited?

It's 100 percent authentic as I personally took the picture. The casino in question is an Indian casino. In Washington State unlike other states Indian casinos are self regulated. They have their own gaming commission, etc. They report to noone but themselves

If you do a google search with the casino name + american casino guide you will find several reviews where people are claiming the same things. Edit: I don't even live in the state of washington was visiting for a few weeks for several months at a time. I have no vested interest one way or the other. I posted that as a possible heads up for people to know what they were possibly getting into by playing there.

If people want to use past posts to somehow discredit me, that's fine. I should take it as a compliment really.

You see, what you have provided in the other thread is Evidence.

Which is at least something anyone interested in that particular form of gambling can get their teeth into.

I just like the rig which would be a rig that would actually make a casual player make a ton of money as a result. Think people bet more on that number after seeing it twice in a row or did they avoid it?

Watch a craps table and if 11 comes up twice in a row then the amount of bets on another 11 tends to jump a ton. I rolled a 2 three times in a row at a table years ago when I was there by myself and I laughed with the pit boss how much that third one would have cost them at a full table, and he gave me a free dinner as a result.

Your picture is genuinely interesting, and it is certainly a crazy sequence of numbers, but a rig like this if it was intentional would actually put a casino out of business based on how degen gamblers think, and realize that they post all of the stats of the past in roulette to encourage people to make predictions of the future even though the game has no memory. If that wheel was flawed so that certain portions of the wheel had more numbers as the result then they would get destroyed by players who recognized that problem (same thing online if any riggie theory was accurate).


The "I see magnets" part though is pretty damn laughable. If they are cheating they probably will be a bit more subtle (and will also do it in a way that will not cost them a ton of money as this sequence no doubt did).

Remember, live games are rigged!

People avoided the number that kept coming in. In fact whenever a number would come up, I'd look at the board and few if any had bet it. Mind you this was a FULL table.

As far as avoiding the casino altogether after suspecting foul play, well... They are the only game in town. Literally one of the only casinos for like 50 miles.

The magnet thing is not laughable actually. You should search on youtube for "roulette" "magnets". You will see a few devices and how they work. Also google the terms. This is something that was used as far back as the 1950's.

Live poker games in regulated establishments are 99.999 percent secure. No argument.

I've heard some ficitional stories in my time....... but this has to be right up there with the best of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRl-LorwrZ4

Somehow you managed to find people that actually suck at roulette and I did not think that was actually possible in that game. If I see a number coming in over and over I know I will say "hey, maybe the damn wheel is broken - $10 on that number!"

Tell your gambling buddies to play the lottery and pick the numbers seen on the tv show Lost so they can split the prize with 5,000 people if they win since they seem to be into making bad choices even at non skill games.



If the magnet was being used it would not be seen just by looking under the table. They may as well have a 7 foot guy holding a huge magnet if they are going to be that dumb about it. Seriously, try using some common sense once in a while.



Read some of your own threads for a really warped perspective of reality. My story is true and fairly inconsequential. The odds of the sequence are not even that severe, literally 1 in 1296 after the first roll and it happens every day in the casinos. Go to one and as one of the craps dealers what the action is like at the tables in those sequences.

Also, getting a free dinner has always been easy in Vegas if you are just polite and fun with the staff.

If you ever leave behind the weird personality thing you have going and enter the real world you would see what you take as unbelievable is actually quite mundane.

Now, go back to playing your $1 games at ipoker and whining about conspiracies there, isn't it time you started a new, wacky ipoker based thread by now (even though your last few have gotten almost no replies).

All the best.

+1 for this.

It certainly seems unusual at the very least. I guess the next step would be to get someone to investigate further, either a regulator or someone else who can get more data.

Along those lines, there's an American and a Euro roulette wheel here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roulette

Do all American roulette wheels have the numbers in the same order as other American wheels? Do all Euro wheels have the numbers in the same order?

If so, the comment about 35, 29, 14 being adjacent looks to be wrong.

On an American wheel, Wikipedia says that the numbers around 35 are:

16,4,23,35,14,2,0

The frequency of those numbers on the board are (in order):

0,0,0,8,1,0,0

On a Euro wheel, Wikipedia's picture says that the numbers around 35 are:

7,28,12,35,3,26,0

The frequency of those numbers on the board are (in order):

0,0,0,8,0,0,0

I have no idea if the order of numbers in the Wikipeda pictures are accurate, or even meant to be accurate. Thus, if someone knows more, please to be contributing.

Assuming the wheel patterns are accurate, I think the general lack of adjacent numbers would seem to suggest that this is probably a freak occurrence... surely no wheel is rigged so hard that the single precise number comes up without much spillover to adjacent numbers.

lol at this thread, just about 3/4 of the shills post's sound like Perry Mason closing arguments......but rather than send it to the jury, they just make another closing argument, and another, and another, the poker dream team, lmao.

It is very unusual for a case to go to the jury when there is no evidence for the prosecution.

In these situations the judge usually directs the jury to acquit.

Josem it isnt wrong. However I mistyped by entering 29. 29 is nowhere near 14 and 35.

Here is a picture of an American roulette wheel (Which is what this is, and what was mentioned)

fyp.

OK, so with the wheel layout you provided, the 'segment' of the board around the 35 is:

16,4,23,35,14,2,0

On the board in the photo, their frequency was:
0,0,0,8,1,0,0

Further, the board says that 4 and 0 are two of the least frequently rolled numbers.

The board says that 35, 13, 14 and 16 are the 'hottest' numbers. It would be super weird for there to be a 'rig' that pulls the board to the above segment, while reducing the frequency of two of the numbers on the segment.

'Excuse me. Pit Boss. PIT BOSS. Come over hear a minute mate?'

'What is it?'

'I just rolled a 2, three times in a row. Imagine how much that would have cost you at a full table!'

'Haha, THAT is brilliant.'

'Waiter. WAITER. Get this guy a free dinner, yeah?'

'Imagine how much that would have cost me at a full table. That is CRACKING son. You a comedian or something?'

Sorry I'm a bit tired.

Weird yes, impossible no. Google roulette, magnets, and cheating...

but the magnet theory would suggest that the ball is more likely to fall in certain segments of the table - obviously, the magnet is not so precise to make the ball land in one number. you agree with this part right?

so why would this magnet pull the ball towards 4 numbers in a given 7-number segment, and push the ball away from two numbers in a given 7-number segment?

I don't know the answer, I know little about roulette, but I'm trying to show you how you might go about proving/disproving/investigating this stuff in a substantial manner.


Obviously, if the wheel was truly rigged, the correct play would be to keep your knowledge a secret and use it to win big.

Don't they take you 'out back' and kill you* if you do that?


*Or at least break your legs.

Obviously American regulation saves the world from all evil, LDO

As with any of this, demonstrating that the roulette wheel was rigged would depend on whether these patterns outside of expectation continued over time. Obviously something like that would get spotted pretty easily by almost anyone, as happened here. Seems much more likely, all things being equal, that there was something wrong with the wheel than anything else.
This kind of thing would be easy to check: someone would just have to record all the numbers coming off the wheel for a good sample.

Now, if it was a short term rig for a fast score, then not much one can do.

I'd actually suspect the display system.

They are going to put a lot more effort into making the gambling systems bulletproof than some promotional display.

Didn't Perry Mason limit himself to defending when the prosecution actually had a case?