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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-05-2009, 10:57 AM   #7426
DonkoTheClown
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
What does this mean?

What would you like them to do for you? Provide something concrete so that it can be considered. Generalist comments about being more "transparent" make for nice rhetoric, but it's not clear what exactly you're asking for.
You are right, I need to think about this a bit more. I will. Are you a good person to talk to about this if I do come up with some ideas? I thought I read that you now work for Pstars. I am not make a smarta## comment when I say this, I am just thought I read it in one of the threads at at one point in time. If so and if you are a successful poker player, then you would be a good resource.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:00 AM   #7427
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
LOL!

Are you REALLY this stupid?

REALLY?

Something like this could be so easily investigated it's laughable. You wouldn't bother to try though, would you?
Well, I was @ a very italian and very fancy high end "reception hall" in Cleveland. Where probably 75% of the pro's from the Cleveland area play every week...Funny, I didn't see you there....Do you know what they think about online poker...? lol funny you think your expressing the general public opinion.....
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:04 AM   #7428
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Well, post your hand histories up here and get someone to look at the data for you.[/QUOTE]

I will take you guys up on that. I would like to do a study on low limit MTT's. I am going to start with Pstars since they seem to get so much heat in these types of threads.

Thanks,
Joe
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:10 AM   #7429
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
The US government are going to enforce illegal activities?

You mean they are going to make it mandatory to break the law?

Good grief!



Except that that is complete and utter bull****.

The US government have an issue with banks dealing with gambling outfits not the gambling outfits themselves.


BTW, you should get together with tk1133. He seems to be reading from exactly the same hymn sheet as you.

It's not a hymn dude...It's real fact. If you'd take the time to research the Poker Bills, you would see that one of the major points in the legislation is people using AI(Bots) and illegal software that gives them an edge. If you watch the interview on PPA.org w/ Howard Lederer, the people that want onilne poker banned biggest arguement is fraud and being cheated. They said numerous times, "How do we know we're playing against another actual human player." H.L's Reply..."It's all about trust...." Look it up and watch it....Trust?! How about we get some regulation then it's about LAW.
Sounds like Bernie Madoff..."Trust me!"
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:17 AM   #7430
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

What would happen If UB, AP, Pokerstars, and FTP all decided to say F@$% the USA and seized everybody's poker funds and didn't want to pay any US players? Who could enforce "anything"?
This isn't a rhetorical question...Really would like an answer....
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:18 AM   #7431
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
I believe it is you who is in need of help.

ya think?

it's unfortunate you weren't clever enough to realize that comment wasn't directed at you. and it's also unfortunate that you have only read the latest responses to the same dumb theories presented without evidence. I tried many, many times to reason with the Rigtard Army (ask my buddy tk), but insane people can't be reasoned with. So yeah, it's just cruel sport picking on y'all. I admit it. But tell ya what, when one of your brethren brings a constructive piece of evidence that doesn't rely on gimmick accounts voting in a Rigtard-Created poll, selective memory, racist conspiracy theories or patterns which no one else can verify I'll be a little more hospitable.

Why don't you look into it quietly, and when you have made a determination report back?

btw, people who have high I.Q.'s are smart enough not to brag about them to strangers on message boards.

you should consider checking things out before getting involved, dontchya think?

Sites do have a way to make tournaments end faster through programming. However, they're nice enough to label them "Turbo." But just to be safe, you should avoid them all. That way you won't have any reason to bother us any more.

epic brags:
  • has a friend
  • has a girlfriend
  • has a job
epic failure:
  • unsolicited brags about them.

beggars/choosers, etc.

why do you care what people do with their money?

oh, you don't want Good Americans giving money the the Bad Israelis you allege own Stars, huh?

Is English your primary language?

no you haven't. sounds good though.

This cheating you seem so intimately familiar with is not the topic being discussed here.

wait, I'll have to beat the US Government who will be "enforcing... illegal activities and more" soon too?

Does that mean they'll be making collusion, action flops and (illegal) rake mandatory? What else do they have up their sleeves?

And while your bold text does stand out, it really only helps people find the dumbest posts faster. But thanks for playing along!
LOL! Please tell me you have more important things to do outside of making a sport of picking on people who have less information and experience on this subject than you do. That does not make you look like much of a human being...

Whats the matter, you dont have a girlfriend? Almost anyone should be able to get one or at least a cat...
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:20 AM   #7432
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

QPW, you have no idea how politics work...stick to shilling and botting....They target that banks b/c they think if they "decapitate" online poker(Financial Institutes) then everybody would stop playing. "If you can't get money on or off, nobody will play." They can't violate our constitutional rights as Americans and deprive us of our freedom...
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:27 AM   #7433
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
QPW, you have no idea how politics work...stick to shilling and botting....
Shilling and botting, now?

My, I do seem to be a busy person.

Quote:
They target that banks b/c they think if they "decapitate" online poker(Financial Institutes) then everybody would stop playing.
Actually, despite you rather fanciful conspiracy theory the only reason for their action was concern that online gaming was an absurdly easy way to go about money laundering.

Quote:
They can't violate our constitutional rights as Americans and deprive us of our freedom...
ROFLMAO.

Well, they certainly seem to be doing a pretty top hole job at the moment.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:30 AM   #7434
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
LOL! Please tell me you have more important things to do outside of making a sport of picking on people who have less information and experience on this subject than you do. That does not make you look like much of a human being...

Who is that running this shiney new gimmick account?

Quote:
Whats the matter, you dont have a girlfriend? Almost anyone should be able to get one or at least a cat...
Oh, goodness!

With a subtle wit like that you should go far.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:32 AM   #7435
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
LOL! Please tell me you have more important things to do outside of making a sport of picking on people who have less information and experience on this subject than you do. That does not make you look like much of a human being...

Whats the matter, you dont have a girlfriend? Almost anyone should be able to get one or at least a cat...

I have a feeling he's pretty well off finacially, Unfortunatly he is correct about the people ripping you apart. I used to come in here and fly off @ the gums about this and that w/ out doing any research...They'll let you know. So for future reference...Knowledge is power....opinions and views are weak...unless your a Mod. of course! I can tell you that your probably the victim of poker bots used by regular players, where in turn you automaticly want to blame the site. Whether certain sites support or allow them(bots) is another topic....
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:35 AM   #7436
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
What would happen If UB, AP, Pokerstars, and FTP all decided to say F@$% the USA and seized everybody's poker funds and didn't want to pay any US players? Who could enforce "anything"?
This isn't a rhetorical question...Really would like an answer....
They would lose the ability to conduct business in any sense of the word, and the industry would collapse pretty much over night, and they would give up their long term healthy profit stream for what would be a ton of legal battles over the money they stole.

Not really sure what else you want to hear, if you think that the entire industry can and will do this then do not put any money on any of the sites, as there is no easy way to answer extreme paranoid "what ifs"

What if all the banks in the world decided to stop allowing withdraws for their customers. What if money was no longer accepted as a form of currency by anyone? I don't know - maybe become an end of world guy with 2 years of stored food underground somewhere to feel better.

The doom and gloom stuff you suggest can and does happen, but generally to the smaller, fringe rooms that never had a business plan that worked. Those rooms either vanish or get bought by the bigger rooms (both have happened in recent years) and the industry matures and becomes more efficient.

Not really much else to say. If you truly are that paranoid of the entire industry's collapse then stay away. Nothing anyone will say will cure you of your paranoia, and fortunately nobody is forcing you to put money in the sites. So don't. Problem soved.

All the best.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:35 AM   #7437
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Shilling and botting, now?

My, I do seem to be a busy person.



Actually, despite you rather fanciful conspiracy theory the only reason for their action was concern that online gaming was an absurdly easy way to go about money laundering.



ROFLMAO.

Well, they certainly seem to be doing a pretty top hole job at the moment.
No it was first the Wire Act in 1963? To curb money laudering and off shore gambling. It's not just the FEDs and Secret Service that want online poker banned, its the predatory gambling assoc. all sorts of those garbage advocates that make wacko cases to their senators and congressmen and it becomes the "theme" for their fight to ban online poker...
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:37 AM   #7438
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
They would lose the ability to conduct business in any sense of the word, and the industry would collapse pretty much over night, and they would give up their long term healthy profit stream for what would be a ton of legal battles over the money they stole.

Not really sure what else you want to hear, if you think that the entire industry can and will do this then do not put any money on any of the sites, as there is no easy way to answer extreme paranoid "what ifs"

What if all the banks in the world decided to stop allowing withdraws for their customers. What if money was no longer accepted as a form of currency by anyone? I don't know - maybe become an end of world guy with 2 years of stored food underground somewhere to feel better.

The doom and gloom stuff you suggest can and does happen, but generally to the smaller, fringe rooms that never had a business plan that worked. Those rooms either vanish or get bought by the bigger rooms (both have happened in recent years) and the industry matures and becomes more efficient.

Not really much else to say. If you truly are that paranoid of the entire industry's collapse then stay away. Nothing anyone will say will cure you of your paranoia, and fortunately nobody is forcing you to put money in the sites. So don't. Problem soved.

All the best.
Thanks bro... really wanted input

Speaking of Bernie...He was in the wrong business then...
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:41 AM   #7439
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
No it was first the Wire Act in 1963?
tk, when you put one of these: '?' little squiggly things at the end of a sentence it means it's a question.

However, the sentence must have the grammatical form of a question as well.

Yours doesn't which makes what you have written effectively meaningless.

Then again, that's a good description for most of your output so no change there.

Quote:
To curb money laudering and off shore gambling. It's not just the FEDs and Secret Service that want online poker banned, its the predatory gambling assoc. all sorts of those garbage advocates that make wacko cases to their senators and congressmen and it becomes the "theme" for their fight to ban online poker...
Do even you know what all this drivel is supposed to mean?
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:51 AM   #7440
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I have a feeling he's pretty well off finacially, Unfortunatly he is correct about the people ripping you apart. I used to come in here and fly off @ the gums about this and that w/ out doing any research...They'll let you know. So for future reference...Knowledge is power....opinions and views are weak...unless your a Mod. of course! I can tell you that your probably the victim of poker bots used by regular players, where in turn you automaticly want to blame the site. Whether certain sites support or allow them(bots) is another topic....
It is hard to tell what peoples motives are in some of these threads. I am just doing some research on the subject of "Rigged Sites" because I feel like I may have been cheated. I didnt realize that I was going to be running into pokersite shills and others who dont have better things to do with their time than try to make sport of those who dont understand or have as much experience on the subject. I dont mind some of these people getting sarcastic though, some of it is pretty funny. I enjoy a good laugh. If I get nothing else out of it than that, I at least still got some laughs out of this.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:02 PM   #7441
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Thanks bro... really wanted input

Speaking of Bernie...He was in the wrong business then...
Again, not sure what your point is. Do you have all of your $500 fortune in a mattress due to Bernie or do you still have money in a financial institution? If so, why? If Bernie existed, why will it not happen where you have your money saved? Why does "Bernie" only apply to online poker somehow (even though he had nothing to do with that industry) but not the entire financial infrastructure?

Capitalism and free markets are not for everyone. If you are truly convinced that they are all an evil plot/scheme to defraud the entire population then remove yourself from the grid so to speak. Other paranoid personalities have done just that already.

Good luck with that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
It is hard to tell what peoples motives are in some of these threads. I am just doing some research on the subject of "Rigged Sites" because I feel like I may have been cheated. I didnt realize that I was going to be running into pokersite shills and others who dont have better things to do with their time than try to make sport of those who dont understand or have as much experience on the subject. I dont mind some of these people getting sarcastic though, some of it is pretty funny. I enjoy a good laugh. If I get nothing else out of it than that, I at least still got some laughs out of this.
Good luck with your research. The best approach will be if you can first answer these questions.

Why did "they" specifically cheat you? What made you a target? Note, I am not saying this makes you paranoid (ok, clearly it does, but ignore that for now), but knowing why you are the specific target of a grand scheme will help you define the research you need to conduct.

All the best.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:05 PM   #7442
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
LOL! Please tell me you have more important things to do outside of making a sport of picking on people who have less information and experience on this subject than you do. That does not make you look like much of a human being...
He is not a human being, ldo.
Quote:
Whats the matter, you dont have a girlfriend? Almost anyone should be able to get one or at least a cat...
Our overlords only mate once a year and the call is so strong none can resist. Also, if he had a cat it would only be until the Sunday Feast.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:07 PM   #7443
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Who is that running this shiney new gimmick account?

My name is Joe, I live, work and play in San Diego California. I am a 44 year old part time poker player. I of course have some holes in my game, so I am interested in improving my game. The first step for me is to determine if online poker is worth my effort because I am spending a significant amount of time playing online. I have had some success and failure for various reasons. At this point in time, after spending a few years playing online, I am a little concerned about some things I have been seeing, so I am looking for some advice here on 2+2. I assure you that I am no troll. I will however have as much fun as I can on these threads because that is just who I am.

Oh, goodness!

With a subtle wit like that you should go far.
You are right, this was a bit childish. I do resort to school yard tactics sometimes. I guess I am not quite ready to grow up. I will try to refrain from this kind of communication in the future, but no promises...
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:09 PM   #7444
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
You are right, this was a bit childish. I do resort to school yard tactics sometimes. I guess I am not quite ready to grow up. I will try to refrain from this kind of communication in the future, but no promises...
Oooops! I guess I need to first figure out how to use the communication tools on this site. Sorry...
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:11 PM   #7445
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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He is not a human being, ldo.

Our overlords only mate once a year and the call is so strong none can resist. Also, if he had a cat it would only be until the Sunday Feast.
LOL! Thanks for the laugh
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #7446
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I guess I am not quite ready to grow up.
Growing up?

Where's the fun in that?
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:31 PM   #7447
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Good luck with your research. The best approach will be if you can first answer these questions.

Why did "they" specifically cheat you? What made you a target? Note, I am not saying this makes you paranoid (ok, clearly it does, but ignore that for now), but knowing why you are the specific target of a grand scheme will help you define the research you need to conduct.

All the best.[/QUOTE]


That does make sense. I dont think that I am specifically being targetted, but I do suspect that if there is something going on, it is to maximize profits.

What I have gathered so far here and 2+2 is that I need to do the following:

- Collect a very significant amount of hand histories on my play.
- Research the information for patterns that look outside of the statistical norm to me at my current level of understanding.
- Share the results here with the community to see if what I am seeing and thinking makes sense to people with more understanding and experience on this subject
- Take the necessary steps to bring myself to a conclusion based on the outcome

This is my "Action Plan"

This looks like quite a project, I hope that I have enough time and patience to get through it...LOL!

Thanks for posting.

Joe
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:52 PM   #7448
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I believe it is you who is in need of help.
That is why I am on these message boards, I am looking for help. The help I provide to my clients is not connected to poker unless someone has a gambling problem.


Quote:
it's unfortunate you weren't clever enough to realize that comment wasn't directed at you. and it's also unfortunate that you have only read the latest responses to the same dumb theories presented without evidence. I tried many, many times to reason with the Rigtard Army (ask my buddy tk), but insane people can't be reasoned with. So yeah, it's just cruel sport picking on y'all. I admit it. But tell ya what, when one of your brethren brings a constructive piece of evidence that doesn't rely on gimmick accounts voting in a Rigtard-Created poll, selective memory, racist conspiracy theories or patterns which no one else can verify I'll be a little more hospitable.
You are right, I totally misenterpreted the info. Sorry about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
Why don't you look into it quietly, and when you have made a determination report back?
I first needed to understand what it is that I need to do, how to do it and then how to interpret the information. That is why I am here on 2+2. You guys cracked the AP and UB scandals. So I can imagine that there are some pretty smart people here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
btw, people who have high I.Q.'s are smart enough not to brag about them to strangers on message boards.
Yea, there was no need to bring that into the discussion. I guess I must have been under the impression that I was under some sort of personal attack and needed to defend myself with worthless information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
you should consider checking things out before getting involved, dontchya think?
I first needed to understand what it is that I need to do, how to do it and then how to interpret the information. That is why I am here on 2+2. You guys cracked the AP and UB scandals. So I can imagine that there are some pretty smart people here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
Sites do have a way to make tournaments end faster through programming. However, they're nice enough to label them "Turbo." But just to be safe, you should avoid them all. That way you won't have any reason to bother us any more.
If you are bothered, dont respond to my posts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
epic brags:
  • has a friend
  • has a girlfriend
  • has a job
epic failure:
  • unsolicited brags about them.
More deflection. This just makes me wonder about your motivation for responding to posts. I am sure that you have good information to share, it is just hard to sift through all of the pointed comments.

Last edited by DonkoTheClown; 08-05-2009 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Not setting up the quotes correctly - I am new
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #7449
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Growing up?

Where's the fun in that?
no fun at all...
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:57 PM   #7450
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
No it was first the Wire Act in 1961? To curb money laudering and off shore gambling. It's not just the FEDs and Secret Service that want online poker banned, its the predatory gambling assoc. all sorts of those garbage advocates that make wacko cases to their senators and congressmen and it becomes the "theme" for their fight to ban online poker...
FYP
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