sticky plz. Lot of ppl need to check their bank accounts.

Needs a sticky and people need to be made aware. Screw FTP glad I only play on PS.

wow. what the hell

This is what Ziigmund was talking about...creepy. I bet Lederer and Ivey and Durrrr, etc. are all planning their escape to a desert island where they can have challenges against each other...free from prosecution!!

Seriously, with all the research put in to this, thread coordination. It would be really cool to say I was there when we made em tap out.
Personally I think all of em are doing something shady...Full Tilt is just the one under the spotlight now, I doubt they just started doing this and It's obvious they are not the only ones doing it, because they will get away with it as will the other sites, but if FT is investigated I think it will be like a crackdown involving other sites with their own crimes against us!!

investigate them all!!!

I had deposits from PMI today for all my money, and a PM from Sean -- I'm running late for work, so if he doesn't visit the thread shortly, I'll update a bit...

I just want to make sure I understand the situation with PMI.

Basically anyone who has either deposited or withdrawn money from FTP in the last ~18 months using any kind of ACH method is a risk of having PMI withdraw money from their bank account in about or exactly the same amount that they deposited or withdrew?

It would appear so, until Full Tilt comes clean about who has been affected and who hasn't. I strongly suspect this is only a limited pool of depositors (I haven't read all the posts, but it seems already to be limited to depositors only so far).

Whether it is directly or not directly FTP fault is just one issue - the other issue is that RIGHT NOW, many FTP players that do not visit 2+2 or this thread are having their bank accounts stolen from. They need to be notified by FTP what is going on so that they can stop the theft from continuing each month.

The poker community (or any community) should not sit around and let other poker players get stolen from when we all know that it is happening as we speak today.

Agreed. We're likely all from a pool of players submitted to a particular processor during a particular time period (or periods) when FTP (and all sites) were having trouble finding/using reliable processors.

Is anyone effected from NY State?

I'm guessing it might be state-associated, with them not being able to touch certain states (reasons for, I have no idea).

I received the following from FTPSean this morning by PM. I had hoped that he was in the process of updating other people, other threads, so I was going to refrain from posting it, but here's what he said:

While FTP hasn't accepted responsibility for the issue, it does appear as though they're actively working on a resolution. At a bare minimum, they now seem to know who PMI is, who their bank is, and have their legal team working on it.

I also want to caution others that FTPSean's silence might be a direct result of this being handled by their legal team. Working for a pretty big company myself, I can tell you that legal departments are pretty touchy when it comes to pending and open actions.

"Shortly" probably doesn't mean what we'd like it to mean, but I'm - again - willing to give FTPSean the benefit of the doubt in that he'll let us know what's going on soon enough. Corporate legal teams working international banking issues take time.

To get your money back you have to manage to get thru to the phone number on your bank statement, leaving a message is useless, it might take a day or two to get a hold of somebody. They will reverse the charges which takes 24-48 hours, explain that it's a "glitch" in their system, and then claim they will block your account from any charges in the future.

As far as how easy it is for online retailers to charge people that have purchased items in the past. It is more simple than you could ever imagine. I work for a bigger than average internet retailer, not that i would ever do it, but i can simply charge anyone that has placed an order at anytime by entering their order number and typing in the amount to charge. However, I have a conscious and like my job, and i know how that feels after this PMI scandal, so the thought of doing such a thing is preposterous. Also, the actual bank info is not accessible so we cannot give/sell banking information to 3rd party processors...For any internet shopping, always make sure they are a BBB accredited business.

It's not necessarily near the same amount, i got two random $67 dollar charges in a 7 day span from the PMI bastards, i've never done a transaction around that amount, let alone two.

All the junk emails I receive from FTP on a regular basis and not one word!

Shame on FTP. Never will deposit now.

Apr 6, 2011 Electronic Deposit from PMI 8888758035 200.00 xxxxxx.08
Apr 6, 2011 Electronic Deposit from PMI 8888758035 200.00 xxxxxx.08
Apr 6, 2011 Electronic Deposit from PMI 8888758035 200.00 xxxxxx.08


[...that's right, I've got X dollars and eight cents in my account...]

Anyway, I got my money back this morning, after a phone call on Monday near noon Phoenix time.

I obviously won't have too many more updates in my own situation, but I'll keep answering what questions I can and keep this visible while FTPSean works on getting us a formal answer from their legal department who should have an update for us "soon."

Somewhat of a positive development but still a long way from 'good', they should, at the very least, be warning their customers via mass e-mail (which they are good at judging from all the FT spam I get) so they can check and dispute any charges they find in a timely manner. Also, "shortly" in FT terms could mean 2 days to 2 years.

I'll eat my hat if they bulk email their customers.

You'll have to stand behind me with a net... ...to catch the monkeys flying out of my ass.

They're going to make good on it, they have no choice. Someone in management needs a corporate communications 101 refresher. Its not FTP Sean's fault, he's just the messenger.

I did say 'should'... and those butt monkeys will be gorillas before they do I'm sure.

They actually don't.

WHERE WE STORE YOUR PERSONAL DATA
The data that we collect from you will be initially stored on servers situated in Guernsey or an EEA state. Certain of your personal data will be transferred to and processed in Ireland and or the Kahnawake Mohawk Territory in Canada. From time to time your data may also be transferred to and processed on servers situated in other jurisdictions outside of Guernsey for the purposes set out below. Such processing may be performed by us or on our behalf, by our staff, agents and sub-contractors who may be located anywhere in the world. By submitting your personal data, you agree to this storing, transfer and processing.

Source: http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/privacy-legal.php

You seem to have stopped a bit shy of the mark with the above quotation from FTs privacy policy. The bit that is relevant to the current problem is further down:

Our agents or sub-contractors who are given access to your personal information will be required to keep the information confidential and not use it for any other purpose than to carry out the services they are performing for us.

Edit: The underline is by me for emphasis.

If you can't in fact REQUIRE something of your employees and/or subcontractors and make it stick via civil and/or criminal legal means then you shouldn't advertise/promise that you REQUIRE it, in order to reassure your customers.

Bwahahahaha...
Wahahahahaha...
Bwahahaha...
<catches breath>
Bwahahahahahaha...
Oh god, you're killing me...

FTP and every other poker site uses an ARMY of 3rd-party processors.

As pointed out, burred deep in their legal page is a reminder that they sub-contract and share data with those contractors.

...which flies 100% absolutely in the face of their assertion that they don't share your data with anyone -- something they put on their deposit information page.

I've deposited from my bank account 4 times since roughly January, while the money still hasn't been taken out of my bank account they continue to let me deposit. I just requested a cashout via bank and it was immediately declined, did a check request and it was immediately accepted. I'm curious to see if it ends up coming at all.

I'm one of the lucky ones, as I haven't had any PMI charges on my bank account (as of yet).

Another fear I have is what's to stop Full Tilt from saying you can't cash any money out as we never received your initial deposit(s). As of now, it's not a huge deal, I'd only be out a few thousand, but what if someone has a big score and FT determines the funds were never debited from the users checking account, can they block cash outs?

Palimax,

You said:

But you then go on to refer to non-normative text within the website:

Source: http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/respons...ming-legal.php

You claim this as a "promise" but the only binding agreements are those set forth in the terms & conditions, spell out quite clearly that they will share data with certain 3rd parties. The non-normative text is little more than advertising, the meaning of which is subject to interpretation and bias. It's not a promise.

And you probably are misinterpreting what they mean. I can only speculate as you can, but I would speculate that what they mean is that they won't sell your email address to spammers. It should be obvious, as you yourself note, that they would have to share your information with subcontractors in prder to process payments.

Long story short, they never made any such promise. That's all I was saying.

SpaceGhost:

You are talking about what FTP should and should not do. I'm talking about what they actually do. One is opinion. The other is not.

Ultimately FTP cannot fix any of this. The only thing people can do is have a specific account for poker and only use it for that. Once PMI got peoples account info there is nothing FTP can do to get them to stop. My guess is FTP does not use them any more and PMI would just tell FTP to go f$%# themselves. So to anyone that does not have a poker specific account needs to get one immediately and close the account they used to deposit on any poker site. This sucks but is the only real way to stop this from ever happening again.

Also FTP is handling this horribly. They know they cannot fix it but instead of saying something they just ignore their customers like they always do.

GL to all of those affected because this is beyond ridiculous!