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FTP Answers 9/30 FTP Answers 9/30

10-07-2010 , 05:05 AM
So how long is it usually between these 'FTP Answers' threads?

I'd like to hear an official response from them about all of the criticism and what (or if) they plan on doing about it.
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10-07-2010 , 05:10 AM
Just to reiterate, fwiw, I srsly doubt ANYBODY would be complaining about these changes if the fish/whales/recreational players ACTUALLY had rakeback, and most would be rejoicing. I don't think concept is lost on even the nittiest of nits. So surprised people are still bringing up the concept of things being 'fair' with regards to this.
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10-07-2010 , 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snafoo
No, your analogy is wrong, ducy?
No
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10-07-2010 , 05:39 AM
What's your move FT? If you don't follow up soon my next move is PS, and I'm sure many others are too.

P.S.
I don't think any of us are bluffing this time....
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10-07-2010 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chump Change
Just to reiterate, fwiw, I srsly doubt ANYBODY would be complaining about these changes if the fish/whales/recreational players ACTUALLY had rakeback, and most would be rejoicing. I don't think concept is lost on even the nittiest of nits. So surprised people are still bringing up the concept of things being 'fair' with regards to this.
I haven't seen a stat that would prove otherwise. Even for those who don't have RB, FT still has to pay out to affiliates for their MGR. This has been beaten to death and the numbers that people are spouting are just not realistic. Claims that 99% of fish dont have RB are absurd. This isn't 2005.
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10-07-2010 , 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by five4suited
against my better judgment...

I can't believe this debate is still going on. If I win and withdraw, I won from other players. The poker site's profit from me is the rake taken from all the pots I won (less their "per capita" costs).
So if there was no deposits, you would not be able to win from other players, because there would be no money on the site.

Yes they profit from rake... DUH! But someone must deposit money so it can be raked.
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10-07-2010 , 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1huskerfan
No
IM+ = getting paid $1000/wk (only if you work all 5 days, mixing 4 hour and 10 hour days)
BC = getting paid $250/day (only if you work 200 hours a week)

FYAnology
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10-07-2010 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snafoo
IM+ = getting paid $1000/wk (only if you work all 5 days, mixing 4 hour and 10 hour days)
BC = getting paid $250/day (only if you work 200 hours a week)

FYAnology
FR player?
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10-07-2010 , 06:02 AM
We are your customer's, you work for us right? Don't you know how to work a perfect business model? Keep your customers happy and the will return and recommend other players to the site.

Now you've changed the program, made it harder for noobs, made it harder for regs., made it harder for FRingers. The price of poker just went up at your site, and I don't think I can nor anyone I know pay that price.
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10-07-2010 , 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1huskerfan
FR player?
Lol, those hours are not mine (I'm BC with much less hours).
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10-07-2010 , 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1huskerfan
So why is it that fish cant play fish?
they can, but adding regs to the mix will create more rake and more games running for the site
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10-07-2010 , 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCellman
Hell yes... fish vs fish would be ideal for any site.
lolz - so wrong
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10-07-2010 , 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcat
Dammit, the word is "lose"! "Loose" is the opposite of tight.

I've mostly stayed out of the whole argument, but I'll point out that the sites' total take is deposits - cashouts. If they somehow keep as many fish (ie, depositors) as they had before, but everybody who cashes out (ie, profits) leaves, the site will make money. Period.

Yes, this may not be relevant - the fish may quit depositing if there aren't games running for them to play in. Or if the good regs leave and fish become profitable, they may start cashing out. But it pays to bear it in mind, I think.

As for me, I play short-handed and HU LHE at high enough stakes that rakeback is pretty insignificant. That said, I'm probably going to get a lot more, simply because I might actually earn some FTPs now.
profit = deposit - cashout - remaining balance on site

not coincidentally

profit = rake per table * number of tables

If regs leave the better fish will become the whales and the only thing that will happen is number of hands will go down and total rake will go down and profit will go down.
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10-07-2010 , 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
they can, but adding regs to the mix will create more rake and more games running for the site
The only thing that creates more money for the site is more money going into pots. More tables where 50% of the hands are fold-fold-fold-pfr-fold-fold generate less rake than fewer tables that have multiway pots and are showing down.
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10-07-2010 , 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight

profit = rake per table * number of tables
This is basically it. People need to understand that the values aren't static. Just increasing the number of tables by itself wont necessarily increase profit for FTP if it means game quality goes down (ie smaller pots => smaller rake/table). Conversely, if you encourage bigger pots (reward players who putting their money in the middle) rake/table goes up => better quality games => more tables.
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10-07-2010 , 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chump Change
Just to reiterate, fwiw, I srsly doubt ANYBODY would be complaining about these changes if the fish/whales/recreational players ACTUALLY had rakeback, and most would be rejoicing. I don't think concept is lost on even the nittiest of nits. So surprised people are still bringing up the concept of things being 'fair' with regards to this.
I think if everyone had RB right out the gate this would be an awesome move. Obviously the way it is its just them say hey we just figured out a way to make a millions more a month and guess what, we can say it makes the games more fair!!
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10-07-2010 , 07:42 AM
I'm not sure what a "reg" is, but assume it has a lot to do with volume. I know several players who play part time because they need a real job to get insurance, won't go full time until the US laws are more clear, like their profession, etc. Some of these folks do quite well and others are purely recreational players. This latter group is worth retaining on FT because they play for enjoyment and have the resources to reload (and often do). These people will never reach BC, Iron Man, etc. In my water cooler discussions, it has come up that one thing that made waiting around for the mass multi-tablers to act and playing a greatly reduced number of hands per hour was the dealt rake. At least they got something for their patience. While all the discussion here seems to be centered on the "regs", these changes also discourage some part time players.

Before you start jumping all over me about not being a "reg", let me say my preference is to do away with all rakeback and bonuses, reduce the rake and play to win. It seems some people are more concerned about the bennies than the game.
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10-07-2010 , 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1huskerfan
I haven't seen a stat that would prove otherwise. Even for those who don't have RB, FT still has to pay out to affiliates for their MGR. This has been beaten to death and the numbers that people are spouting are just not realistic. Claims that 99% of fish dont have RB are absurd. This isn't 2005.

So I guess it is just speculation at this point... but you're saying FT made a move that actually COST them a bunch of money, in the interest of fairness? You're honestly saying that?

This thread is ****ing fascinating.

And what's the talk about only fish not having RB. Plenty of people don't. Phil Galfond doesn't have RB on his OMGClayAiken account. At least he didn't a few years ago.
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10-07-2010 , 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caspermatic
Right, there are different kinds of players. FTP is obviously no longer catering to full ring multi-tablers and instead is focusing on 6-max, Heads-Up, and Tournaments. I consider this an excellent strategy as my guess is that full ring will decline in popularity, if it isn't already (cue somebody proving me dead, dead, wrong on this).
Don't worry, there are other sites that cater to your game of choice. Or at least one.
this is a level, right?

FR 200NL is the most popular game and level for No-Limit Holdem in the world.
just ask any card room manager of any casino of your choosing.
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10-07-2010 , 07:52 AM
Doug you have to improve the store. there is hardly anything in it that appeals to me as a uk customer.

Alll your clothes and bags etc are branded with the full tilt logo, you should remove the mgr hit on these for the free advertising!

Please add amazon vouchers to the shop as pokerstars have. At least then i can buy something i actually want.
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10-07-2010 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyra
this is a level, right?

FR 200NL is the most popular game and level for No-Limit Holdem in the world.
just ask any card room manager of any casino of your choosing.
Not to mention that FR games help keep the fish around a lot long then 6max or hu. The more shorthanded the game gets the faster the fish loose their money and the less rake they pay. Obviously hu is the worst for the sites cuz the fish just get raped soooo quick by a decent opponent.
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10-07-2010 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyra
FR 200NL is the most popular game and level for No-Limit Holdem in the world. just ask any card room manager of any casino of your choosing.
In a B&M casino, you don't really have the option of playing shorthanded, so that's pretty irrelevant.
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10-07-2010 , 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1huskerfan
The only thing that creates more money for the site is more money going into pots. More tables where 50% of the hands are fold-fold-fold-pfr-fold-fold generate less rake than fewer tables that have multiway pots and are showing down.
Now do you really think that the site will really make up losing a huge amount of table-hours because there are more multi-way pots?

Look at the example below, the site would lose 90% of traffic and has to make that up by tenfolding their rake/hand. That is simply impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snafoo
Only if the number of players would be constant and the fish would play as much as the regs.

In the real world, a site getting rid of its regs would loose most of their business. Let me demonstrate by an example (numbers made up, but you get the point):

Say you have a sit with the following player profiles:
#players: 100000 (50% regs, 50% fish)
avg hours played per week: regs - 80, fish 10
avg number tables: regs - 6, fish 1.5.

Table-hours/week:
Regs: 80*6= 480 hrs
Fish: 10*1.5 = 15hrs

Total table hours for all regs: 480 * 50k = 24,000,000
Total table hours for all fish: 15 * 50k = 750,000

In this example, the regulars generate 97% of the site's traffic.

Now if all regs leave, the fish may be able to play more hours since they don't loose there money as fast. Lets assume they can push the hours up to 30 hours (pretty high given that they are recreational players who probably work 40hrs/week). Now the fish play 2,250,000 table-hours. The site still lost 90% of traffic.
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10-07-2010 , 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chump Change
Phil Galfond doesn't have RB on his OMGClayAiken account. At least he didn't a few years ago.
OMG OMGClayAiken!!!
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10-07-2010 , 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgoSuisse
In a B&M casino, you don't really have the option of playing shorthanded, so that's pretty irrelevant.
Whether or not you have that option wasnt in question. The other posters' point was that FR is losing popularity and will prolly be dead. That just isnt the case anywhere in live games or online games.
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