This would not particularly bother me. After all the same outcome can happen after 1 hand. At the start of a tournament something like this is really minor to players not involved in the hand. I would be more annoyed if they had posted my blind and I didn't get a chance to play it because they started early.

As someone else brought up, this is not a freeroll.

I also don't think it is really "unfair" to void the hand, or at least no more unfair than any other case where a hand is voided due to an unintentional irregularity.

Let's say two players go all-in preflop, one has AA and the other has KK. The dealer puts out the flop and two queens of spades appear on the board. The hand is obviously voided. Is this unfair to the AA player? I don't really think so because this was never a legal poker hand.

Similarly, I don't think a hand dealt outside of the time that a tournament is taking place is a legal tournament poker hand, so voiding it isn't really unfair to anyone involved, unless there is evidence of some sort of angle-shoot.

It can be a freeroll. Let's imagine this scenario. The Dealer Begins The Hand 20 Seconds early. Player A realizes this but says nothing. He has pocket AA. Nobody else's realizes it or cares if they did. Another player has KK. The money goes in preflop. Cards are turned up player stays silent watches the cards get dealt out. K spikes the river and now player A calls for the floor he wants the hand invaldated. If he won he wasn't going to say anything and neither were the other players. By the time the hand is done the other tables are playing so if someone didn't notice before they aren't likely to notice now.

If you could guarantee that this would always be brought to the floor's attention, then I would agree. I don't think you can.

How does player A know that the other player in the hand didn't realize it was hand was deal before the break was over?

In my other example, it could be that one player knows there are two queens of spades in the deck, and only plans to ask the dealer to check the deck if he loses the pot. This is obviously very unethical, but if the dealer discovered a duplicate card, the hand is still void, regardless of how it is discovered. (Though the player with the knowledge may be penalized if his angleshoot can be proven.)

My point is that it can be that their is only one player who will raise the issue. I Would Never raise it after the hand so if it's you and me ...you are free rolling me.

I don't know why only one player would raise this issue. If I come in the middle of a break and a hand has been dealt, I would certainly raise the issue regardless of who won.

You're not getting it.

What if you came back a minute late from break, you'd have no idea that a hand started early.

You can't be certain that this issue would always get brought to the attention of the floor.

This was a hand that started shortly before the start of the tournament. If no one shows up in the small window of time between when the dealer started dealing and the actual begining then they can't know about it.

Right, you can't be certain that an irregularity will always be discovered. That doesn't mean that the irregularity should be ignored when and if it was discovered. Sometimes it might be discovered as a result of an angle-shoot, and if an angle-shoot can be proven, that player should be penalized. But the irregularity should still be corrected.

The OP doesn't even say who discovered that the hand was dealt early. If it was discovered by someone who came back from break in the middle of the hand, does that change the answer?

The hand should play.

Action offered action accepted.Same as any other mistake caught during a hand when it's discovered too late (such as the button moving two places.)

The people not at the table didn't accept the action.

If a dealer deals a hand 5 minutes before the end of break and the short stacked BB isn't there are you really going to tell him "action offered, action accepted" when he comes back and asks where the hell half his stack went while he was on break?

If a hand was dealt X minutes early and Y players weren't at the table for the hand then there is some threshold of X,Y where voiding the hand is the only acceptable solution imho.

I feel like I'm the only one that thinks this hand should be voided every time and it's irrelevant whether it was before the tournament even started, AND/OR coming back early from the break.

The only time I can see any logic in letting the hand stand is if everyone is that that particular table. Maybe pause the clock and let the other tables deal exactly one hand and then resume play as normal.

No you're not. If my short stack big blind got dealt to before the clock started from break and I didn't get the hand well duh. All kinds of misdeals this should make the list.

How about if not everyone is at the table, but those who aren't at the table still weren't at the table at the true start time in fact they are still away when the floor is called after the hand?

They still shouldn't be forced to miss two hands, when they should have only missed one.

That still falls under my initial condition of not everyone being at the table. The hand should be void unless in the very specific instance that everyone IS actually there.


In fact, maybe it should just be ALWAYS void.

I agree it should always be void.

Why does it matter if everyone was at the table... if the players at the table wouldn't have been their at the legit start anyway?


Always. How about if the dealer began the hand 20 seconds early? 10 seconds? 1 second?

Because those players, upon their return, would have missed n+1 hands instead of n hands.

It feels like you're being intentionally difficult here.

Not when you factor the time delay of the floor call here. I am being intentionally difficult because I think you are glossing over the difficulty.

You are coming off as if you have never been in this situation. What should happen is that the dealer should wait. Once you are in the realm of a floor call, that typically means "the stated rules or procedures were not followed." What that means for us is it isn't possible to have a mechanism in place where "all early hands are voided" because whatever mechanism that is could be used to just not deal the hand in the first place.

When an irregularity occurs, the floor must decide how to settle it in the most equitable manner. I don't see a way for this to occur 5 minutes early, the floor staff doesn't go on break during the break, so they should spot a dealer dealing when the tournament is not in play. When I have seen this occur it has been when the TD takes longer than expected with the announcements before beginning the tournament.