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Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling?

05-07-2016 , 08:40 PM
Dealer misheard the announcement and starts dealing, player gets knocked out during the hand, how would your room handle this? (saw this on twitter didn't actually have it happen just curious for how it would be dealt with)
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-07-2016 , 08:43 PM
Too bad so sad is our room's official policy.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-07-2016 , 09:01 PM
Action offered and accepted (in a way).

If the player has a beef, he should have spoke up as the hand was dealt. Not after he was knocked out. I bet if he won the hand and doubled up, he wouldn't have argued.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-07-2016 , 09:16 PM
so what if people weren't dealt in because they weren't back yet... I feel like this would be a mess but I guess it has to stand since it's significant action. I think players that weren't there have a bigger reason to be upset then the player who got knocked out though because they realistically couldn't protest and are punished.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-07-2016 , 09:33 PM
Were all the players seated? I can understand the action offered/accepted argument with respect to players who were at the table, but of there were absent players, it seems like they never accepted this illegal action. How can they be forced to pay blinds or antes? Or even lose position in the hand?
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-07-2016 , 11:33 PM
In this case they rewound it like the hand never started all players involved went back to their original stacks.

Last edited by DrDanimal; 05-07-2016 at 11:51 PM.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-07-2016 , 11:56 PM
Have the other tables play one hand before restarting the clock?
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-08-2016 , 06:18 PM
If a majority of players were present and got dealt in, anything other than accepting results of the hand and moving on is absurd. As has already been said, the time to object is during course of the hand, not after.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-08-2016 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls_horn
If a majority of players were present and got dealt in, anything other than accepting results of the hand and moving on is absurd. As has already been said, the time to object is during course of the hand, not after.
It's a bit much to expect someone not yet seated at the table to object during the hand when he is in the bathroom because he knows the tournament hasn't started yet.

The busted guy has no legitimate complaint; others assigned to that table but not yet seated do.

If even one person was not at the table, the results of the hand should be voided, as was done. If everyone was present, I like the idea of giving the other tables one extra hand before starting the clock.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-08-2016 , 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
It's a bit much to expect someone not yet seated at the table to object during the hand when he is in the bathroom because he knows the tournament hasn't started yet.

The busted guy has no legitimate complaint; others assigned to that table but not yet seated do.

If even one person was not at the table, the results of the hand should be voided, as was done. If everyone was present, I like the idea of giving the other tables one extra hand before starting the clock.
Would the time frame matter. Dealer starts dealing 20 seconds early .... one player has not returned.....and still has not returned by the start of the next hand which is after the true start?
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-08-2016 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK
Were all the players seated? I can understand the action offered/accepted argument with respect to players who were at the table, but of there were absent players, it seems like they never accepted this illegal action. How can they be forced to pay blinds or antes? Or even lose position in the hand?
It sounds like this was the very beginning of the tournament, so there wouldn't be antes yet, and any player not yet seated wouldn't be paying blinds anyway. If they had, I'd be OK with them getting their blinds back from the guy who won the pot. But the guy who busted should stay busted.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-08-2016 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat the Gambler
It sounds like this was the very beginning of the tournament
Or at a break
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-08-2016 , 08:57 PM
As I think about this more, I am more convinced that voiding the hand is correct.

I don't think the action offered & accepted reasoning can be used in a tournament because in a tournament, the actions made by two players in a hand affect all players in the tournament. That's why there are all sorts of anti-collusion rules in tournaments that don't exist in cash games.

What would happen in during a break in the tournament, two players agreed to flip a coin for their stacks? They flip, and the winner "busts" the loser and takes all of his chips. Is this action offered & accepted? Obviously it is not, as you can only win and lose tournament chips within the context of a tournament hand.

What if two players, who are the only players at a table during a break, convince the dealer to deal them a hand, and one busts the other? Is this action offered and accepted? Again, I think that even though this might be a legal poker hand during a cash game, it is not a legal hand in the context of the tournament, and nothing that happens during it should be considered binding on the tournament results.

Here, I think the hand was played outside of the legal context of the tournament, and that players cannot agree amongst themselves to wager tournament chips on anything other than a legal tournament hand.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDanimal
Dealer misheard the announcement and starts dealing, player gets knocked out during the hand, how would your room handle this? (saw this on twitter didn't actually have it happen just curious for how it would be dealt with)
This is a judgment call for the TD (an easy one IMO) based on how many players were at the table, how soon they played this hand before go time, were there dead stacks at the table, etc. I highly doubt we are talking about this being a long period of time before the actual start of the clock and almost all places don't put out stacks until a player is seated, so I would say this hand should be considered played as is and start the tournament. It would be far too unfair to let this busted player have a redo.

It would be a hard case for anyone to get me to rewind this hand.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 02:53 PM
What if it's after a break and a very short stack UTG is absent for early hand and when he returns he is now in the blind for the first hand instead of UTG?

I can see players who acted being held to action, but if done it could cause a mess with blinds. Do you tell absent player tough luck, you are now blind? Do you tell blinds in early hand they are blinds again?

I guess the floor would have to evaluate actual impact on table, and also make judgment call on whether the early hand was really so early it mattered. (what if it was dealt 12 minutes after a 10 minute break started, but no shuffle up and deal was declared?)

Too many what ifs. Floor gets to decide based on variables, and shouldn't be a fixed rule.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 03:46 PM
There's really no perfect solution here. Yeah, it's not really fair to the players that have lost an ante and/or blind, but it's also not fair that a player gets to go all-in on what is basically a freeroll since if he loses he gets his money back.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 03:54 PM
Can't find the tweet again, but the one I saw said
a) It was at the start of the tournament, not coming back from a break
b) The hand was one minute early.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12bigworm81
What if it's after a break...?
I was assuming OP was talking about the start of the tournament.

If it were after a break then...
Quote:
Too many what ifs. Floor gets to decide based on variables, and shouldn't be a fixed rule.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRawrsALot
There's really no perfect solution here. Yeah, it's not really fair to the players that have lost an ante and/or blind, but it's also not fair that a player gets to go all-in on what is basically a freeroll since if he loses he gets his money back.
It's not a free roll. If you decide to cancel the results of the hand, you certainly would have done the same thing if the results were different.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
It's not a free roll. If you decide to cancel the results of the hand, you certainly would have done the same thing if the results were different.
Do you mean to say that you believe every player who would raise the objection after the hand when they lost would do so if they won?
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
Do you mean to say that you believe every player who would raise the objection after the hand when they lost would do so if they won?
Was it mentioned anywhere that one player in particular made the objection?

I have already stated that it is not the losing player who has the right to object after the hand, but the players who were away from the table. And they should object no matter who wins. Anyway, it really shouldn't take anyone in particular objecting; the dealer who made the mistake should be asking for a floor resolution.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 04:33 PM
It woukd hae been even better if he lost with KK to AA.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Was it mentioned anywhere that one player in particular made the objection?

I have already stated that it is not the losing player who has the right to object after the hand, but the players who were away from the table. And they should object no matter who wins. Anyway, it really shouldn't take anyone in particular objecting; the dealer who made the mistake should be asking for a floor resolution.
Well it seems to me if the dealer realized what was going on he should have held up as soon he knew. I imagine the scenario went down with the losing player objecting (and he possibly knew earlier but waited to see the outcome before objecting). Players who aren't there probably aren't objecting. If this truly happened 1 minute early there is only a small window where a player could not be there when the hand started and still know that it started early.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 07:19 PM
At what point was the error brought to the dealers attention? Who spoke up?
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote
05-09-2016 , 07:24 PM
Get to your seat on time and face another player who has been doubled up and has you 2 to 1 in chips.
Tournament dealer starts dealing before cards in the air, player gets busted, ruling? Quote

      
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