My .02, from my experience in the box, most stiffs are losing players.

My observations as a player lead to the same conclusions for the most part. The better tippers generally tend to be more jovial. Expanding on this, the jovial better tippers play more for the purpose of entertainment. Plenty of these will come out to play with $X to lose and will play until $X becomes $0. It's better if $Y of $X goes to dealers in tips.

I also think you're right that players can get a thrill from tipping dealers. I know I did (and even to a small degree sometimes still do). I remember a time when I was raw and would go to a casino to get drunk and burn money and have fun doing it. I was once a carefree generous tipping fool, though this was mostly at pit games.

Eventually, I figured out that I could leave the casino with more $ than I arrived with. Add awareness, knowledge, experience, and cynicism (some cynicism courtesy of this thread) and you could switch jovial/entertainment/better tips with more seriousness/personal achievement/less tips.


Tipping is -EV in monetary terms though it can be +EV in feel good terms. For some it's neutral EV as they will just lose their money anyway. I do understand why anyone does or doesn't do it.

That's just because most players are losing players.

What should be the appropriate steps taken when a dealer basically calls you out in front of table for not tipping? I've only had this happen at MGM (rudest, most unhappy dealers I have ever experienced btw).

First occasion dealer is just sitting there not dealing, while the blinds are out, so my friend asks if we are playing or what. Dealer did not take that kindly and snaps back at him with some smart ass comment. So I decide that this dealer no longer deserves tokes from me. After not tipping him in a couple pots, he then proceeds to ask me where I'm from. I tell him; then he asks what I do for a living, which I tell him something basic. He then says: "You must not make much money". Should I be reporting this to floor or upper management?

Next occasion, also MGM. I tip a dealer $2 on a large pot, and he asks if he thought I was good or I got lucky, along with some other smart ass comments. Apparently he was not happy with "only" $2. He then starts slow-dealing on purpose, really taking his sweet time with everything, really obvious. I did not appreciate either of these things, so I put him on my DNT list. Next time, different day, this same dealer is dealing, I don't tip him in a pot. He then asks, so you're xxxxx (my name), I say yes. He then says, "So that's how you roll huh?" I'm just like what? He then turns away and says nothing.

WTF is wrong with MGM dealers? Are dealers supposed to say stuff like this? Can I talk with MGM management about the dealers?

As you describe this, the dealer is acting completely out of bounds. The most appropriate course of action would be to speak to the floor supervisor and let them know that you don't appreciate the dealer's behavior.

It also wouldn't be out of bounds for you to request the name of the shift manager or poker room director to escalate your complaint.

I don't think that the situation you described merits an escalation all the way to upper management.

"The way you run your mouth to customers, I doubt you make much in tips"



Costing himself money. I ignore.

"Like a lot of people, I prefer service with a smile rather than a scowl."

If the dealers are that blatant in a club, there have been complaints. And management has ignored them.

I either ignore (which usually includes continuing to tip at my normal rate) or stick up for myself in a calm, even keeled manner.

I do. I would let management know why I won't be playing there any more.
Costing the house money. I would think they would do something about it.

Upper management? You think he should go directly to the CEO? I suggested a floor supervisor or even a poker room manager. I don't see how a rude dealer experience needs to be escalated directly to the head of the company.

Similarly, when I call Microsoft tech support and feel unsatisfied with the assistance I'm given, I don't immediately demand to speak to Bill Gates.

I would go at least to the Shift manager or casino manager. It's possible that the poker room managers may also be a problem here, which is why the dealer gets away with this.

You did say so if a floor supervisor or even a poker room manager doesn't
seem to care then yes escalating things further seems reasonable.

It's two people out of likely hundreds working there. I wouldn't indict everyone on account of this.

What were the "other smart-ass comments"? I don't understand making the post, referencing them, but not stating what they were.

Meh there are a lot of unhappy dealers there. I'm sure there are some good ones too, but the bad or unhappy ones just seem to stand out more.

First dealer after being asked if he was going to deal said something like don't worry about it or you don't think I know what I'm doing. My friend then said you shouldn't treat customers that way, and dealer snapped back at him saying he started it or something stupid. I don't remember the exact quote as this one was longer ago.

Second dealer was referencing me getting lucky on the river and kept inquiring about the hand, hinting at that if it wasn't for him dealing such a lucky river then I wouldn't have won the pot, thus I should be tipping him more.

Steamraise, did you really half of a sentence that I wrote in an attempt to prove your point? Your post reminds me of when a movie reviewer writes:

"This is a clear case of the worst family movie. I would never recommend that you should take your kids to see it."

And then the poster quotes the review with:

"A family movie.... that you should take your kids to see"


Please read my original post again and tell me where I ever said that upper management should be involved in a minor dealer complaint as a first step of escalation.

I didn't say that.
If you start at the top you aren't escalating things.
I'm agreeing with you that the floor and manager should be the first to go to.

I disagree that this is minor dealer complaint.

HERE YE HERE YE - Buttermilks guide to tipping

0-40 - &0
40-150 - $1
150-300 - $2
300-500 - $4
500 - 1500 - $5

Exceptions -

a) I will NEVER tip a dealer, regardless of potsize if (s)he is rude or insulting in anyway or just has a negative attitude. These situations are rare but very cut and dry. If I take 30 seconds when facing an all in bet of 200+ and get a sigh or eye rolling, its going to really suck for you when you push me pots

b) dealer mistakes are subjective. If dealer deals turn before player has acted and that card, that's now reshuffled, would've won me the hand. sorry, im bitter and you will never get a tip from me. If dealer flips my ace or paint card preflop, I will not tip for that shift unless they apologize sincerely.

i find 80% of dealers are fine/average. 10% are excellent/fast/super friendly
10% suck/slow/screw up.

As far as playing against dealers. why on earth would anyone have an issue with that. they are there to gamble just like me and you. its their money they can do what they want. doesn't matter if its tips their playing with. once you tip them, it aint your money NO MO!

You are welcome to sit at my table.

what do u mean? is that a good thing or a bad thing? are u a dealer? if so, what do u think of my "ideas"

Are you talking amount of profit in hand or size of pot, big difference. $150 pot that was half my money and $75 potential profit gets raked $6 then its $1. If I profit $150 after rake then $2, same thing on your $300 example, clearing $150 from a $310 pot and tipping $4 is crazy, unless your talking clearing $310 in the hand.

Yes I'm a dealer. You sound very reasonable.
I wish more players would punish bad/rude dealers.

earlier ITT someone referenced the short pitch. its quite subtle, but definitely noticeable. I get this myself, if I raise PF to 12, 2 players call, I cbet flop, everyone folds, the pots 40 and I don't tip. this seems to drive dealers nuts? can you weigh in on this. also, can u give an example of letting a player know your not happy with his lack of tipping. something maybe not obvious or something you can get in trouble for. more like not pushing the pot all the way or pushing it too fast. im just wondering cause maybe there are things I haven't picked up on. either im too high, drunk, or up or down to much to notice or care. thanks

So, a dealer who burns/turns early and benefits you, you tip double? What if he does it 3 times in his down? Tip him a lot?

Flips a deuce and replaces it with an ace, all is forgiven?

Dealer flips an ace, the down card is usually an off suit trey. I wasn't going to play the hand anyway. I loudly ask the dealer to flop three aces. Just to be able to laugh if it happens (and so it happens to me instead of some jerk who would go off on a nonstop rant for 30 minutes).

If he flips over cards (burns-turns early) every tenth deal, then I have a problem, even if the mistakes benefit me.

no I mean pot size. not profit. and I disagree I think 2.5% tip is anything but crazy. maybe because im not a professional. maybe because I make 90k a year as a telemarketer and play 1/2 because im not really "good" at poker. I play because I love the game. of course, winning money is the idea, but I don't keep spreadsheets or all that.

If you don't play for a living then tip any amount you want and its ok, same for playing for a living but their bottom line will be affected greatly if playing smaller stakes.

Yes. Yes. Its results oriented for me. If it cost me money, it costs him money, if it made me money, he makes money. this is in regards to mistakes. ive been playing poker for 10 years and never heard someone go on a 30 minute rant about an ace flipped preflop. exaggerate much?

So, you are willing to reward bad dealers and punish good dealers, depending on the outcome.

Yes, I do exaggerate, to prove a point. Flipped cards are random. Sometimes they help, some times they hurt. I know it balances out. Many players don't see it that way. They are results oriented.