"Spreading out the pot" is bullcrap. I've seen it before:


"dealer how much is in the pot?"

"Can't say."

"Can you spread the pot? More. More. More."

Spread it out far enough and you might as well just stack and count it for them too. It's an angle shot because you're essentially having information made available to you that you aren't entitled to.

The pot should be kept in a standard pile, not too tight, not too loose. No player has the right to change the standard table configuration to make up for the fact they weren't paying attention.

Unfortunately, this concept is beyond most dealers and floors, who gladly allow the angle by spreading the pot.

Boy, are YOU stupid....

:P

You are entitled to know another player's stake. You are not entitled to having the dealer keep track of the size of the pot for you, except in PL.

I see from reading the other replies that this may revolve around game speed and chip protection.

I can also see why the dealers shouldn't be held responsible for lazy players.

I put you all in.

I've been playing for a while, but had never seen a dealer spread a pot until a year or so ago. At first I thought it was BS, but then I thought that if he didn't spread the pot, the players might get it in their minds that they should keep track of how much is in there. Wouldn't want that.

jmo

dealer should have to spread the pot as all players should be able to see the money in there. mostly i say this because a good dealer at no limit doesnt get the pot all in one big heap. the bets are pulled in but still a alittle apart so everyone can see the pots bets, except for the first round of course where its just opening money dragged together.

players also need to learn that verbal bets and calls can go for or against you at any time and you take your chances. make the person put the money in the pot if you arent very familar with him and trust him. never turn your hand up until the pot is right and its your turn to show. and hold your hand until the pot is coming to you and all other hands at the table are fully in the muck.

Sound advice for the players Ray, now we just wish all players would do such things so it would cause a lot less headaches for the floors.

Now what you say about the dealers spreading the pot seems to be against the norm in most places. Is that how the players in real big cash games prefer it, letting the dealers spread the pot?

I hope he comes back because I think he is talking about something else. As the pot is formed the bets should should be brought to the edge of it rather than picked up and put into the pot. When the bets are slid in like this the pot is relatively spread s the players can see if there are any bills or higher denomination chips in there. I don't think he is talking abut spreading it out flat so the player can count out the chips one by one. Hopefully he will return to clarify this point.

I was somewhat confused by this as well, because I don't bring each bet to the pot individually, If the players in seat 3,4,5 all put out a bet once i confirm that the bets are the proper size, I reach out and slide them all in together (unless they are to big to handle with one motion). Stacks fall over and once in the pot they are not going to be visible as separate bets.

And seeing higher denomination chips or bills that are already in the pot doesn't strike me as terribly important as the players ought to be able to to figure the pot size based on the action and not just by looking at the pot.

On a side note I had a really hard last night at work when I refused to tell a player how much was in the pot the entire table erupted as though I had committed a great crime and when the floor came over and I asked him if I could tell a player how much was in the pot he said "of course."

There are a lot of players that will use that (I need to see the big chips in the pot to make sure they are there) angle to get the dealers to spread the pot for the player. Realistically all dealers are not going to know the exact pot size at all times, but they have a pretty good idea on how many large chips go into the pot.

I too would never pull each bet in separately but pull them in together trying to leave the pot as much of an organized mess (if that makes sense) as possible.

There is another thing going on here. I don't think Ray plays in games where all 9 players see the turn. Also the large chips and bills while still be put into the pot should not be covered with additional bets so everyone can see that the dealer didn't steal one of them.

It isn't bring them in one at at time, but If I were dealing and there were bets in front of 5 6 and 7 I would slide the bet from 7 into the bet in front of 6 and slide the pile into the bet in front of 5 and then slide that pile to the pot. By sliding instead of picking up the bets they are never covered by the dealer's hand and they don't cover the existing pot.

Did you get that from the 2+2 Poker Handbook?

I am sure it is in there as a friend of mine wrote a good part of it and taught me to deal way back when.

well i never played in games where after the flop nine people are putting in big bets in no limit. it did go that way when pot limit omaha started out. but the dealers are supposed to rake the bets in so that the majority of money is visible. its not hard at all. dealers get used to pulling it in together from limit games where all chips are the same denomination or so. in no limit a player needs to see the bills and large chips in the pot. and is entitled to see them.
however he is not entitled to a count of the pot unless he believes it isnt correct then he gets one.
but in no limit asking the dealer to spread the pot has always been common on big pots when a major decision is considered and the dealer raked it all in a pile.
this is just spreading it so you can get a rough estimation. i know that the players are supposed to know whats there but it always doesnt work that way.

this rarely becomes an issue as the places i play the dealers are competent and used to no limit. so i guess if its dealers that are new and bunching the pot ask them not to or call the floor.

I think we are in agreement here as the pot should be visible. The "spread the pot" people I am referring are ones that want the dealer to spread the pot out flat so they can count if there are 18 or 22 chips in the pot as opposed to being able to tell if the pot has $100 or $500 in it.

The whole idea of not spreading the pot is ludicrous to me. Dealers should clear their hands each time they touch chips. This, in general, keeps the dealer from jacking around with the chips. In most big bet games, there are as many as five different denominations of chips in the pot, as well as cash. With the current 5 way flops and large pots, it is not unreasonable to allow a dealer to spread the pot to give a player a rough estimation of what's in the pot. The time factor is virtually non existant, as we see so many of the hollywood decisions in every no limit game. Not spreading the pot has no benefit, except to keep information from the players playing the game. If players dont need to see the pot, why dont we drop all the bets into a "pot box", and only allow them access when we award the pot to a player. Sounds dumb huh? Just as we require players to assemble their chips in a manner where every player at the table has the ability to look at their stack and get a rough estimate, they should be allowed to expect the same from the money in the pot. You can't hide big chips at the back of your stack, so you shouldn't be allowed to hide them from players by covering them in a pot. To keep these chips from being covered up, the dealer would need to arrange the pot as the bets come in, and we certainly can't have the dealers handling the chips for that long a period........ LOL

You cant have it both ways.....

Let them spread the pot

I am very surprised you feel that way. You might change your opinion if you saw someone ask the dealer to spread a $20 pot in a 1-2 NL game. Also hw can you possibly have time to come here in Jan?

And this is the word of the lord....please rise

The next time I see Johnny (I expect it to be tomorrow or the next day) I am going to ask him about this.

the miracle of the iphone. This post was mostly from the floor of the WPO. I send all results yo the media outlets, and use that time to "check the pulse" of our event, and see what else is going on.

i cant figure this one out. Sarcasm?

Just messin with ya...or should I say, "Shoulda better known better"....

VC

I honestly don't care that much about whether you allow the dealer to spread it or don't because I believe most people can adequately replay the betting in their head and get about as close as if they try to estimate a big pot. But I think it makes life easier for everybody to just flat refuse. "Spread the pot, please" *spread*spread* "Uh... spread that little bundle apart, please" *spread* "ok, I can't quite count that section, spread that" *spread* "darn...I lost count, gotta start over..." And I have seen almost that interaction in hands when the dealer did spread a pot for someone. I think I'd prefer to just let the dealer tell 'em how much is in the pot.

But I really prefer "no" as the response to "spread the pot". Fast and to the point. And if applied consistently, nobody will ever argue.

I read it as true love and appreciation for your obvious powers, JG