I've played with dealers in both Bellagio and Canterbury Park.

Dealers are good for the game. Yes, some can play and quite well actually, but most can't, just like everyone else for the most part. And they only have an advantage if they were better than you in the first place.

OP: when she commented as to why she called...even though she probably should've refrained from talking about your play (esp. because she's a dealer first and a player second)...I'd take what she said as valuable information; maybe you need to take a better look at your betting patterns (maybe not, I don't know) and maybe you can trap her the next time this exact situation comes up.

1) Most dealers knows the rules as well as or better than most players.
--> 2) When arguement starts with a dealer and player on opposited sides, the dealer will usually be correct.
--> 3) The floor will usually decide for the dealer.

--> 4) Bad feeling created.

I remember from my LHE days, having played for years in some pretty tough games, that I could get a read on how somebody plays from only an orbit or two. That is, the game is so precise, compared to NL, that there really aren't many "alternative" strategies that are profitable, unlike NL.

So, any advantage she, or any dealer might have against you, is (a) very small, and (b) very short lived.

Basically, who doesn't play KK the way she did? Maybe a little aggressive, but her line is pretty standard. Sounds like you just overplayed your hand a bit.

Most dealers suck at poker and are so bad that what little info they get from you doesn't mean much.

However you situation is a different, but in general, dealers suck at poker lol

My experience as well.

God I hate when they do this.



OP, if I see a dealer in a game, I just assume the room allows it. Dealers are usually just propping a game. It sucks when a dealer is involved in a bad beat jackpot though.

I used to be a dealer and one thing that goes through many dealers' minds is that they all think they are good at poker because they see so many hands. This included me and then I even quit my job to play "professionally" which I regret because that job was a well paying job and it was easy and fun as hell.

Anyway, I've learned many lessons since I quit that job and am now thankfully getting back on track but one thing to take away from this is that most dealers try to play too fancy and make moves because they think they are better than everyone else. So, this means you should welcome dealers to play with you with open arms.

It is good for the room to allow dealers to play. When games are short they can get out and keep them going. When it gets busy they can be picked up to deal again.

I love to see a ruffled shirt come to the table. They always have disposable money, they love action and they never play as well as they think they do.

(Never allow a dealer to peek at hole cards. That is information that not only they will use but they will often tell your opponents off the table.)

There is a reason why I play big draws the way I do, it is not too hard to figure out why and has nothing to do with my question in this thread.
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I run into dealers, from my casino and others, in just about every starting table of every tournament I play, never bothered me.
I agree with the consensus in this thread that most are bad players who are good for the game.
Also, a Floor from the Asian games sometimes jumps in to my game.... He has only seen me play when he sits at the table.
I had never thought twice about him playing... I seriously doubt that he spends his Friday nights watching the security tapes.

I guess what happened in the OP and my followup would be like what would happen if I sucker punched Mike Tyson...


This made made my OP worthwhile. Thanks
Trust me, for now on I will be staring into the eyes of both dealers I mentioned in the OP every time I muck.

Edit:
This is very disturbing to think about... thanks for the info

dealers that are any good at the game generally stop dealing.

and huge lol at expecting bad players in a limit game to fold overpairs ever, especially knowing that shes a dealer.

Most dealers suck, so put them at my table.

They are just wannabe players...

If you've ever played in Vegas, odds are good you've played in a room that allows their dealers to play where they work. I can't think of any strip room that doesn't allow it. You probably just never saw it happen. Just because they allow it doesn't mean you'll find a lot of dealers doing it. Many of them find it more uncomfy to do than OP finds it. I gots no problems with it, long as they behave well.

For a week or two, Phil Ruffin put in new rules that prohibited the TI dealers from playing there, but the poker room management got him talked out of that rule.

Dealers playing in their own room should strive to behave just like any other polite player. I've seen some seriously bad behavior from dealers sitting down to play (reaching out and creating side pots to "help" the real dealer, grabbing the deck from the dealer to rabbit hunt after the dealer has said "you KNOW we can't do that" in response to a request, insulting other players). Don't do that. And whatever else you may do, DO NOT ANGLE SHOOT!

I saw a dealer (not the one in the OP) get on the bad end of a wicked bad beat. She blamed the current dealer for it and then started yelling at him.

By and large I don't find most casino employees to be all that helpful while playing.

Most dealers suck at poker, and OP probably sucks as well for not knowing how to adjust. If this dealer won't believe your raises when you're on a draw, how hard can it be to adjust??? Either stop semi-bluffing her, or on the flop when you have OESFD just get it in when you have equity to do so and get called by her junk pair.

I do agree with dealers doing the casino no favor by playing though... it creates an impression that something fishy's going on and when players have a choice, seeing dealers play will make some players choose another casino next time instead.

I have had this experience, first time at Casino Arizona; peak was three of their dealers playing at once on one table, all of whom had dealt to me at one time or another. I found it a little unnerving at first, but I didn't see anything which looked like softplaying or collusion, and after a while, I observed that they weren't especially good, although they were at least competent. But they also knew the rules and kept the game moving, which was good, and they tended to be congenial and pretty resigned to beats (good and bad). So on balance I thought it was OK.
If you play at either Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun, you will commonly see multiple dealers from one casino playing at the other on their days off, and a lot of the players bounce back and forth, too. Doesn't seem to bother anyone. The dealers are mostly pretty good company at the table, and they've seen a lot, so they tend to smooth out the game. Again, they're technically competent, but they usually don't exactly run over the table. Some of them seem almost fatalistically resigned to losing.
It's kind of interesting, actually, that while a few dealers have certainly gone on to be excellent pro's, most seem pretty mediocre as players, despite their large experience of hands observed. I think it must be a lot different to actually play than to deal.
If you're concerned about a particular dealer knowing your habits, you probably ought to consider varying your play more, because other players will pick up on this stuff, too.

This. Dealers are donkaliciously bad. Many dealers at the V I see on the other end of the table as well. It ain't that easy when your money is actually in play, instead of you rapping a chip on the box and putting it in your shirt pocket, is it? Rebuy!

-The Big Stack

whether she has a read or not, i wouldnt mind putting all my money in as 56% favor to win the hand. the turn wasnt capped right? did she just c/c?

guess im wrong on the cant play where you work. ive played many different casinos in LV and i guess i just never noticed it. here in CT if you work at foxwoods you can not gamble in the casino and same goes for mohegan sun. guess i drew a bad conclusion just because i never saw them play at any room they worked in in LV.

however i wouldn't really let it bother me. most of the dealers who play as well are not playing full time (which would likely earn them more) because they are not good enough, so i have no problem playing with them as many others have noted here

you would think observing a lot of poker would improve people's games, but i have yet to see it

You made the point that they can gain reads while you cant, but isnt the same also for a spectator, the hands you play arnt exactly private and a spectator could watch you for hours and then sit with a lot of reads on you just like the dealer did. I know your not complaining but im just making the comparison

When dealing a table, the rank of the cards is my least concern. It only matters at showdown, which happens less frequently than everything else. I'm running the mechanics, not the strategy. Every now and again I'll notice a nice tactic, but it's hard to get a long-term picture when I'm only there once or twice a night.

Fixed your post.

Well, dealers aren't really observing. They're making sure the pot is right and reminding people not to act out of turn and changing money for busto players and calling in open seats and figuring out who needs to post and who needs to wait when people play musical chairs. If you're not in California, the dealers are also counting the pot so they can rake the right amount as benchmarks are hit.

I'd be surprised if, right after a hand finished playing, the dealer could name who raised preflop.

Do Dealers Who Frequently Deal Your Game, Have An Advantage When They Play Off Duty?
Most of the dealers I know who also play are so bad that they need all the advantages they can get.

Dealers always play at the bellagio. I see many many dealers at the 4 8 limit game while on the clock (to keep staff of dealers) and a few that play the 15 30 as regs. I assume this is normal... Same at binions-especially the 3 6 dealers choice.