He definition of angling is different for everybody. We'll never come to consensus on that.

...an old man in a 2-day tourney knows exactly what he's doing, and that an overbet and exposure of a weak hand is always always always strength?

Ah. Your stereotypes need recalibrating.

Rulling sucks, but, it is what it is. That being said, I would totally kick his ass in the parking lot.

Are you aware that someone tried to kick someone's ass over a seat change at the Taj, and someone got stabbed to death from it?

Don't put yourself in that crowd.

Besides, what ruling would you like? Dead hand? For what reason?

I've seen people threaten others at the poker table. A guy today, in a tournament I was chip leader in wanted a chop and was saying, "I hold grudges. I don't forget." etc. and I told him that we actually have a rule in this place that you can't berate or threaten other people for not wanting to chop and I pretty much told the kid he better STFU. That being said, I was joking, I am not going to beat up an old man over him angling me, but at the same time, I'm going to let him know, right away that what he did was scummy, and he has made me his enemy. You don't want me as your enemy.

So you enforce rules against people saying things like, "I hold grudges," but you are okay with saying I don't want you as my enemy?

What's the difference? Aren't those different ways of saying the same thing?

Op, what different result would you expect or want? You think his hand should be dead because he exposed a card? Nothing else he did constituted an enforceable act. Others have re-hashed rules and penalties. This rule is enforced by future hands off, never a dead hand. V got an orbit to think about it, justice is served.

The fact is, yeah, he did out-play you. He preyed on your expected pre-concieved notion of the image he presented. Caro calls that "reverse tell". Further, he correctly ranged you on the over-pair and used it in his speech. A bit slimy, but you've got to appreciate the effectiveness. Sorry, TDA doesn't address slimy.

Yes they are. I was hoping you would notice that.

I've been playing in this card room for 4 years, and I'm sitting here the big stack, this kid showed up 3 months ago and thinks he's the poop. You know how many kids I have seen come and go over the past 4 years? And, I know, because I remember when they made it a rule, that you can't harass people to chop. Kid needs to know his place, and STFU because he didn't have enough chips to complain and kept whining about how he lost with A4 against KK an hour ago. "He's gotta wake up with KK there." ... kid was pissing me off.

I'm trying to figure out an equitable and fair way to chop, and this kid is pretty much saying, if we don't give him money above his equity, he is gonna hold it against us. Yeah ... STFU, I don't care. Kid played til he got knocked out. Did not make the chop.

That, and someone specifically trying to angle you ... where they know it's against the rules to expose a card, for instance, but they do it anyway ... that's pretty messed up. You pull something like that in my cardroom, and in 24 hours, everyone is going to think you are a scumbag. If you are OK with that ... rock on.

Do you see how they are different?

I am pretty much a typical sherrif, where I play. I know everybody, everybody knows me. I'm a fair guy. It's a bad idea, to be a guy I don't want around. Because I'll figure out your game, and explain it to everyone else.

Don't mean to hijack, but as described ... you would have a really bad rep, really fast, where I play. Worse than a slowroll.

And the one man was in his 60's and the other was in his 70's with a cane.

Don't judge what players are capable of based on age.

Because this was a tournament, I would throw a penalty at him for exposing part of his hand(whatever the rule/penalty may be).

If the intent was clear, and I was the floor, I would absolutely throw the worst penalty possible. But that's my viewpoint as a player, that pays a rake, and expects the house to provide an environment where breaking the rules in order to angle someone, or get an advantage ... it's just bad business.

I follow the rules. I expect others to as well, which may be a leak.

Let me put in in perspective.

One time, a guy who I thought was a friend of mine, right at the break, he had AA and I had 4,5 with the 5 of hearts and the flop was like, 6h, 4h, 7h. He bet, and I shoved ... nad, in a tournament, turned his cards face up and said, "I guess these are no good, huh?" and I thought that was a fold, and showed him my hand and said, "That depen on the next 2 cards ... at which time I realized my red 5 was a diamond. And he then claimed he wanted to call. Never said "fold". I was pissed. Hand was live, brick, brick, and he knocked me out of the tournament. Both of us have had a brother that died, and I got up in his face and said, "I can't believe you would pull that ... with me." He took a 10 minute penalty for it.

I'll never forget it, and he knows I will never forget it. I learned a lesson though, always protect your hand.

This angle, as described ... way worse.

Are we talking death penalty or just getting the guy 86'd from the casino?

The old guy broke u rule, so he should get the appropriate penalty which is sitting out one orbit imo. The other thing he did, lying about the strength of his hand, is part of poker.

It sounds like he probably was planning on folding, but you jumped the gun by showing your cards before he got a chance to actually fold. But since he hadn't actually folded yet, I'm not sure he even legally could have at the point, once he realizes he's ahead. Technically, folding the best hand to a friend is collusion, and the whole table could see he had the best hand.

So that fact that each of you had lost a brother is relevant...how?

old man isn't shoving unless he has you beat (minimum 2 pair) once he calls out your hand 2nd sign your beat!

I'm surprised this didn't come up yet...OP what did you do (if anything) that could have made the villain think you folded?

Simply put, what other ruling could be warranted that doesn't result in the same result?

Absolutely nothing. We were playing 10 handed, I was in seat 2 and he was 9, so he didn't have the clearest line of sight on me. If we had been next to each other or something where I know he can clearly see me, I think I would've realized what he was up to because I definitely made no motions while thinking. That's 100% my fault, I didn't even consider that before I acted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...7102104761.jpg

OP, understand why you're upset, but does anyone else think that this move is way more of a classic "old man poker player" angle than anything some kid in a hoodie would pull? This feels way more like wild west BS that people pulled back in the day.

For every 10 old dudes you play 9 might be OMCs who look sad when the board looks coordinated at all but will call you down with top pair, but the 10th is totally gonna these sorts of moves in their back pocket because "that's how they did things then."

Remember, stuff like this used to be no problem in the Main Event:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/37...cevoy-1381772/

Funny you say that, as the accepted definition of "angle" is one of the most consistent things about this forum, imo. If our definition is wrong, then let us know why.

Are you high?

The only questionable action is that he exposed a card.

If he said the exact same thing without showing his cards, and you snapped him off, there would be no question that it was not an angle. It would just be normal hollywooding that some people love to do.

I believe you are insinuating that we have some loud and frequent detractors. I won't argue against that.

But whenever someone like the OP calls us "wrong" and tries to change the definition of an angle, he is quickly corrected. That is exactly what happened in this thread. It is pretty damn reliable, you have to admit!

SirRawrsALot is criticizing this forum because a couple of us corrected the OP. Nobody said that NOTHING is an angle. We said this thing that the OP thinks is an angle is actually not, by definition, no matter what he believes.

But many people here do call it an angle.

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