Currently win streaking with this MR Demonlock at **** tier ranks in Wild. I just cobbled this together in like 2 mins after looking at some old Demonlock decks. IT's basically the shell of Discardlock with Voidcaller, Mal'ganis and Jaraxxus, plus fun spells with demon synergy.

2x Flame Imp 1
2x Malchezaar's Imp 1
2x Soulfire 1
1x Voidwalker 1
2x Dark Peddler 2
2x Darkbomb 2
1x Mistress of Pain 2
2x Darkshire Councilman 3
1x Demonwrath 3
2x Imp Gang Boss 3
2x Silverware Golem 3
1x Dreadsteed 4
2x Imp-losion 4
2x Voidcaller 4
1x Bane of Doom 5
2x Doomguard 5
1x Sludge Belcher 5
* Lord Jaraxxus 9
* Mal'Ganis 9

I'm not sure I love the discard effects. I'm thinking of replacing the Soulfires with Demonfire or Demon Heart. Maybe a 2nd Bane of Doom, since it's stronger in Wild? I love Dreadsteed, but it's replaceable.

I actually don't want to toss in too many more demons, because it is nice when you can make Voidcaller summon Doomguard or Mal'ganis and it waters its power down if it can pull a Voidwalker.

This deck has crushed someone standardish MR Shaman and Control Warrior decks, but got annihilated by a Zoo deck running Imp-losion.

This card is stupid strong! Going to be a no brainer 2x in control warrior, and might be enough to push arcane giant warrior into becoming a real thing.

its also one of the few cards in the whole game that can combat lategame jade golems pushes (im guessing they'll play two and wait for you to brawl though).

Rogue needed that card. >.<

Actually, looking at the expansion as a whole, I think that Warlock legendary that summons all demons in your hand could work in a Handlock/Renolock type deck.

I think the problem is you'd have to put a lot of demons that have questionable or extremely situational value in your deck, like Succubus or Pit Lord, and maybe something vanilla like a Fearsome Doomguard.

The 6 mana 6/6 that puts a random demon in your hand helps. The problem is you still have to play the demons, many of which have major drawbacks. But it could load up your hand for the Krul turn.

The question is whether or not this is better than playing Nzoth.

sidenote: the shadow beast summoned as the death rattle to Possessed Villager should be a demon.

Strongly disagree. I think that legendary is total trash. Compare it to n'zoth, which summons deathrattle minions that have died this game. N'zoth gets you a lot of value in 1 card. The warlock legendary is an investment of several cards, because the minions get summoned from your hand and not the graveyard. Also, n'zoth produces an AOE-resilient board, because the minions have deathrattles. The warlock legendary will just make you super vulnerable to brawl/twisting nether, etc. Won't see any play.

I think Hidden Cache, the new Hunter secret, should buff a minion by more than +2/+2.

A minion buff of +2/+2 already has a precedent to cost 2 mana. Hunter secrets that do things that other classes already do get a discount, or are better than the comparative card. For example, Explosive Trap is equivalent to Consecration but costs 2 less since you can't control when it goes off. Freezing trap is like a better Sap since the returned minion costs 2 more to play - again, the penalty is that you don't control when it goes off.

So this minion buff should be better than existing 2 mana minion buffs. But even at +3/+3 its probably not a competitively playable secret.

Wonder if using a hero Jaraxxus' hero power counts as "summoning a minion" for purposes of unlicensed apothecary

I believe that counts if the keyword is "summon" and if it was "play" then no. Lol I really love how this game markets itself as simple but it's so hopelessly convoluted on little things like that

agree

it goes down to the minutest things that you'll only know by playing a few thousand games: the order mirror sylvanas deathrattles trigger when they both die, that using any ability that changes your hero power refreshes it (just learned this week that works on shadowform), the first time you die to a boombot on your turn when you have iceblock and learn that secrets only work on opponent's turn, things summoned go to the right, silence turning a 1/1 token to its full stats, using shadow word death on a tony and it still killing the spellbender, and don't even get me started on weird yogg interactions like "do 3 damage to 2 minions" and it not going off if there's only one minion, good grief i could go on forever.

but no it's an easy to learn game guys. just abandon that mantra and give us paragraph card text a la magic. it's not a simple game.

example from yesterday: I thoughtstole the rogue card that discounts any non-rogue cards in hand and end up with a handful of 4 mana entombs. Oh ****, I forgot that medivh's atiesh only summons minions for the mana you spend on the spell, not its actual cost. **** me, I lost my win condition.

third party sites explain this stuff pretty well but it shouldn't be up to third parties to explain it

I actually have no idea in what order mirrored Sylvanas DRs trigger.

I just assume I'm getting ****ed when there are two Sylvanases on the board as that's what always happens.

deathrattles go off in the order they came into play

you guys complain about design making things too simple but also about any complex interaction. pro tour magic tournaments often involve judge calls to determine rulings, it happens in tcgs with tons of cards with tons of effects. you can't put every scenario down in text, so you either learn by playing or do a bunch of preemptive research.

i dont even try to work out the sylvanas deathrattles even though i know how it works, in the moment it's just too complicated and i think of some other play

or how about n'zoth summons? I don't even know how that works really other than i know you can get completely effed. evidence being playing a priest that got 4 zombie chows and the tauren taunt when he'd played sylvanas and cairne that game

edit: guess it's random. that makes sense and is totally consistent /sarcasm off

i thought it was order played but random makes sense in some weird way I guess

...ever tried to equality+concecrate a c'thun when there is also a crazed worshipper on board?

please explain to me how avenge works and what are the situations where a minion can die and be buffed to health and back to life. is the unit not supposed to have 0 health when it's being avenged?

when i first started playing the deathrattle interactions were super confusing especially the death's bite and haunted creeper interaction to me and I didn't understand why sometimes the spiders were killed by the DR and sometimes they weren't. I definitely understand it now but when I first started some of the interactions were confusing as hell.

why does knife juggler and all of those type of actions still act if they are being AOE'ed. For instance the imp gang boss interaction if a juggler and IGB are on board and hit by a flame strike, why does the juggler get to juggle 1 damage when it seemingly dies at the same time the imp is being summoned.

there are other interactions which aren't very clear especially based on card text like noble sacrifice not popping if your enemy has 7 units on board--same thing with a few other secrets. do bear trap or cat trick pop if your opponent has 7 units on board? i know snake trap does. I don't think mirror entity pops if you opponent has 7 units on board as well--but I could be wrong about that one.

I used to play Dreadsteed in Reno and I understand the interactions with it's deathrattle but yesterday I was playing in wild and got surprised when it was stolen by Sylvanas and resummoned by Kel'Thuzad. meh

Think I finally hit the ranks in Wild where everyone is playing 2 of Loatheb/Dr. Boom/Kel'Thuzad and I have none of those cards.

people play kel'thuzad?

did it die on the same turn it was stolen? so was it killed, re-spawned and then stolen? If so that interaction makes sense.

I ran into Kel 3 straight games (Control Warrior, Divine Shield Paladin, Control Warrior), so pretty huge sample.

yeah the warrior ended up with 2 dread steeds.

heh I just played against someone running demons/Malganis and he was running two dreadsteeds. I was running nzoth pally. My Sylvanas stole one of his dreadsteeds. Guess what happened on my N'Zoth turn!

Fortunately he had thrown down Jaraxxus and was in fatigue by the time my Nzoth showed up so it was over anyway

Only issue with Dreadsteed is it sometimes overfill your board with stupid 1/1s when you Nzoth when you want higher value deathrattles.

exactly, I had nzoth and six dreadsteeds but by then it didn't matter

I ALMOST threw out nzoth several turns earlier (before you face jaraxxus) and if I'd done that I almost certainly would have lost. I had thrown down Tirion, two belchers, one shredder and Sylvanas, didn't matter, here's your five dreadsteeds (had one on board obv)

I had both forbidden healings in hand by t2 that's what saved me

When someone has totem golem, tunnel trogg and coin in their opening hand, I often see them coin the golem turn 1 then play trogg turn 2. Why is this? Is it a general thing to try to get the bigger body on turn 1? Or only in certain matchups?