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The well The well

07-19-2011 , 07:59 PM
Are you going to moove somewhere to play online? and what your plans on future? :-)
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07-19-2011 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbb33
I really wasn't trying to troll you. I'd make a more detailed post, but I think I finally understand the dynamic. Basically an internet preflop raising war ensued, you elected to 5b agsinst a perceived light 4b albeit with a 3better still in the pot... (which might of been fine with game flow, but probably is a bad idea in the specific tournament you were playing), and felt priced in when Billy 6bets. I know Billy, and I know his range for 6 betting there, understandably you don't know him from a hole in the wall. His range being so narrow (QQ, KK, AA) may make your 5b good, however, it makes your call (even if you were getting 3.5:1) bad.

Whatever, I really have nothing against you at all. Just was shocked by it when I was told by Billy almost thought he was making something up, which now its clear he was not.
AK_fold
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07-21-2011 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbb33
I really wasn't trying to troll you. I'd make a more detailed post, but I think I finally understand the dynamic. Basically an internet preflop raising war ensued, you elected to 5b agsinst a perceived light 4b albeit with a 3better still in the pot... (which might of been fine with game flow, but probably is a bad idea in the specific tournament you were playing), and felt priced in when Billy 6bets. I know Billy, and I know his range for 6 betting there, understandably you don't know him from a hole in the wall. His range being so narrow (QQ, KK, AA) may make your 5b good, however, it makes your call (even if you were getting 3.5:1) bad.

Whatever, I really have nothing against you at all. Just was shocked by it when I was told by Billy almost thought he was making something up, which now its clear he was not.
Ok cool thought u were pissed at me about something or whatever. The fact that his range for 6b is only aa-qq doesn't necessarily mean i made a bad decision. I see this all the time when i play, for example player A hero calls river and wins, then player b complains saying " thats such a bad call thats like the only hand im bluffing with there". If player A made a logical decision based on all the information he had, the fact that it was still the wrong decision doesnt put him at fault, its just one of the hazards of playing a game of incomplete information.

With the game dynamic , my image , the earlier hand where he almost got in AK, makes it reasonable to leave combos of AK in his range and there doesnt have to be that many. I think u get this tho from ypur post (not sure) but i think its something that not alot of people get. Basically all im saying is that sometimes u can make good decisions based on the information u have and be totally wrong just because u dont have enough information in this game so often.

Also the reason i think the 5b with 22 is bad is because it would leave me too unbalanced (see my 3betting theory), Its not a situation where i can be right with a very high degree of frequency and my value range is super narrow. That is not to say id never 5b fold here im sure id take some weak ace blocker hands here that couldnt call a 6b jam here and 5b them.


The reason we have theory in this game is due to lack of information (this part is off the subject we were discussing), if we had perfect information we could just 3b any 2 in any spot we knew was EV to do so ( not sure if what i said is true about theory being due to lack of information, it sounds right tho). But 3b spots in particular have a wide range of probable outcomes in terms of EV, which is due to lack of information and 3betting being such a dynamic aspect of the game that can sometimes be impossible to keep up with. So the reason we should worry about what our 3b/4b/5b bluffing range is because we cant know with a high enough degree of certainty alot of the time if our play is EV. So what u do is widen/narrow your range based on the completeness of your information. The more sure i can be that a 3b is ev or not the wider my range will be and this can be to the point of any 2 and vice versa for narrowing my range.

When u make super unbalanced plays based on minimal info what u r doing is making super high variance marginal plays, that cant be right with a high degree of certainty. That doesnt mean that we should just nit and not 3b unless we r like 95% sure its like EV or something. Just to take a somewhat calculated amount of risk based on the likelyhood of u being right.
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07-21-2011 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave47
I think somewhat similarly to OP as to how MTTs will change as regards hoodflatting etc. My question is regards 3betting- do you find u play better 3betting OOP as opposed to flatting? I ask this because I prefer the former and furthermore sauce123 played a whole heads up match where he either folded or 3bet- he tried this because he found he was winning more money with a given hand in 3bet pots as opposed to pots where he flatted

In summation then I`m wondering whether I should be 3betting more often and flatting less :P
The better you are or the worst your opponent is at postflop the more u should be flatting as opposed to 3betting. The more u know about your opponents tendencies postflop the more u should be flatting as well. I could list all the things that should come into your decision but I don't know them all and it's a pretty long list as well. Just wanted u to get a feel for the things that should affect this decision.
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07-21-2011 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by higher voltage
Hi,

Great well thus far.

Can you provide an example of a "good" spot to hoodflat, and why it is good?
Gonna take awhile to answer this, gonna need to think. Also I made this well when I was willing to make tome for it I'm not sure how much time I'm willing/able to devote to it ATM I got some free time today tho.
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07-21-2011 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RU18LOL
are you planning on playing any WSOP circuit events this year since they fit better in your MTT buy-in range?
Plan on playing alot of live poker this year actually. Not epts tho way too expensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CompleteDonk
what would you have done with the money if you win the main event?

if you ever win the main event, can I have $10,000?
Nothing to crazy or anything probably just travel a ton play alot of epts/wsop Europe. The rest I'd just spend on my family which would prolly be alot of $ . No to the latter q
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traps
Weren't you originally from Saugus? Where did you play when you played live? (aside from friend's home games) Seabrook/Turning Stone/Chinatown home games etc.

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBuckets
Congrats on the ME run, hopefully that helps up your live buy in cap...

Any plans of moving out of the country to play online or are you going to play the live circuit?

You said you have been playing more cash, what are some things you think mtt players need to change/learn in order to make a successful transition to cash?
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07-21-2011 , 02:24 PM
thanks for explaining your thought process etc. swell well
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07-21-2011 , 02:27 PM
For the 2 q's above. Ya I'm from Saugus played at seabrook a lil, a game called moons, a lil tstone playing a 2/5 game in southie now. If I knownif any good underground games hit me up. As for moving out of the country thinking about going to Montreal for 1 month during wcoop idk if that's even possible tho gotta look into it. Don't plan on moving permanently anywhere outside the country tho.
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07-21-2011 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBuckets
Congrats on the ME run, hopefully that helps up your live buy in cap...

Any plans of moving out of the country to play online or are you going to play the live circuit?

You said you have been playing more cash, what are some things you think mtt players need to change/learn in order to make a successful transition to cash?
Well for hu cash reviewing your hh's and playing better players to get better is very important. There are alot more adjustments going on in hu then mtts u need to adjust ur strategy often and realize when your opponent readjusts. And obv u need to get better at postflop. I suck at 6max and FR so not giving my opinion there.
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07-21-2011 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaaaaaaa
So after reviewing the 22 hand I realized my thought process was incomplete and some of my initial analysis was off. I'll discuss what I think was going thru my mind during the hand and what I think shoulda been going thru my mind.

History: villain in this hand is playing aggro. One hand tight player opens he 3b CO with ako btn cold 4b (same player in other hand) tight player 5b jams a good amount and he timebank folds and asks me and dude on his left if he shoulda called in a obv fold spot.

History on cold 4b in this hand: he is don Nguyen (socalquest) and is really aggro and very good and he plays HS mixed games quite frequently at bellagio so he seems pretty well versed in the live stuff. He was playing 1 hand with the villain where villain bet river and don bluff raised him otr but villain hero called A high.

During the break we was discussing the hand and he told me he seen a tell I noticed he was staring at his neck and mentioned it saying that's what the tell was and he admitted it to me. As for me I have my typical image.

So onto the hand I start with about 600k 3b has 300k 4b has about 450k at 1700/3400 I think something close to that. I open Hj co 3b btn cold 4b to 52k I think but before he does I see him staring at his neck. The first problem in my analysis was I gave too high a probability that he actually seen the tell he coulda easily not see nothing and just have his STD cold 4b bluffig range which is still wide but not wide enough to 5b 22. Also I'm not sure if ppl show tells when they r making a simple 3b bluff 85bb deep or whatever he was. The next problem was I didn't realize I'd be committed to calling the 6b shove of the 3b. So I make it 130k the 3b jams 278k total but he looked like he had a really tough decision he had one of those natural reactions after I 5b like it was a rly sick spot which is hard to fake. At the same time tho I'm not a live pro so idk how concrete my read is but I still should be able to discount some AA combos. During the hand I didn't think of discounting any combos . Also I didn't think about how button took like 2mins to decide on whether or not to call the 6b jam so he likely had kk/qq which I think is good for my equity in the hand.

Overall after thinking about it today I hate my 5b for the reasons stated above but I don't mind at all calling the 6b jam ESP when I still have 100bb + when I lose.
Fwiw this post made perfect sense to me. Also, doesn't seem as terrible as at first glance given the reads. But not knowing if you're committed against either is obviously a pretty big error.

Nice well tho, if I didn't already mention that.
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07-22-2011 , 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by higher voltage
Hi,

Great well thus far.

Can you provide an example of a "good" spot to hoodflat, and why it is good?
Dont want u to think im ignoring your Q just dont know enough about hoodflatting to answer and havent thought about it yet. gonna answer this whenever i have a reasonable answer ( might take awhile).
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07-23-2011 , 01:17 AM
Played with you a lot online obviously and met you at Caesars AC for a WSOPC last year. Do you remember scamming me into telling you who I was and keeping your identity a secret? Do you usually try to remain low key and not give away this information?

Excellent well, really enjoyed reading your thoughts on 3b/4b etc. GL with w.e you do in the future.
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07-23-2011 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7DeLuX7
Played with you a lot online obviously and met you at Caesars AC for a WSOPC last year. Do you remember scamming me into telling you who I was and keeping your identity a secret? Do you usually try to remain low key and not give away this information?

Excellent well, really enjoyed reading your thoughts on 3b/4b etc. GL with w.e you do in the future.
Ya i def remember playing u. Lol did i rly just str8 up ask ur online name and not tell u mines? Hope thats not true lol. Ya i dont tell ppl who i am at tables unless i rly wanna know who they are so i exchange names. Usually when ppl ask my name i feel like a dick if i dont tell and wind up telling them but i dont announce it to the table just on my own.
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07-23-2011 , 01:50 PM
Nice play with the 22. Sounds like you think the main event is some random $100 f/o. In reality you are just burning money.
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07-23-2011 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_BLADE_U
Nice play with the 22. Sounds like you think the main event is some random $100 f/o. In reality you are just burning money.
I said the 5b was bad and if i called and lost id have 100bb+ which was well above average so tourney life is of no importance.
The well Quote
07-23-2011 , 02:08 PM
So just randomly losing chip lead pots in the main event is of no importance. Losing a million chip pot at 12/2400 or whatever it really was is standard with 22 cuz u think somebody's neck is twitching? You are just randomly praying for AK one time when youve already seen him fold AK to a 5b? I applaud you for going with your reads, however your reads are/were terribly off with no real clear thought process.
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07-23-2011 , 02:16 PM
I_Blade_U on thought process

Great well aaaaaaa, thanks for sharing.
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07-23-2011 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_BLADE_U
So just randomly losing chip lead pots in the main event is of no importance. Losing a million chip pot at 12/2400 or whatever it really was is standard with 22 cuz u think somebody's neck is twitching? You are just randomly praying for AK one time when youve already seen him fold AK to a 5b? I applaud you for going with your reads, however your reads are/were terribly off with no real clear thought process.
Yes the position i put myself in by 5betting 22 put me in a awful spot i shouldnt have put myself in. In regards to the tell i already talked about that and that was a huge error on my part. I also mentioned that the tell could mean absolutely nothing and as long as the cold 4bettor thinks it means something that its relevant and i have good reason to think he does given the history. This actually has nothing to do with my ability to pick up tells.

I believe don feels strongly about the tell and will adjust his range significantly when he sees it because he plays alot of live poker and i think the more people play live the more confident they are in their ability to pick up tells. Also because he was proved correct on it on the hand i mentioned earlier, and we were discussing it and he seemed pretty confident that was his tell.

As for "losing chip lead pots" i think the difference between Cev and $EV on this hand are negligible. I dont think a "chip leading pot" has any special value. Also im not randomly praying he has AK i think he only has to get in AK less than 20% of the time for me to make money (im discounting 1-2 combos of AA). I think somebody wanting to get in ak in a spot he should snap fold suggests he is getting it in a lil lighter than your typical opponent. Also note that im 100% sure don has folded QQ or KK this hand (he took 1-2 mins to fold). Which would take away 5 combos of either kk/qq . I also dont think given what the 3bettor knows about me that AKs is a easy fold, if it wasnt the main event i think he should snap get it in.

edit i know when DON has KK he takes away AK combos to but it is still a good thing for me equity wise when don has KK. Idk why i replied so seriously to your post and over the hand and dont have much value in defending what i know to be a pretty big mistake so idk whatever. Im not sure what u mean about losing a million chip pot there is about 470k in the middle 148k for me to call.

Last edited by aaaaaaaa; 07-23-2011 at 02:42 PM.
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07-23-2011 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mement_mori
I_Blade_U on thought process

Great well aaaaaaa, thanks for sharing.
thx. u coming to florida for the 5k?
The well Quote
07-23-2011 , 02:41 PM
Already here

Edit* in no way is don folding qq or kk here
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07-23-2011 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_BLADE_U
Already here

Edit* in no way is don folding qq or kk here
He folded qq. him calling a 6b jam with me behind for his mtt life with QQ here would be pretty bad. What do u think he folds after thinking for 1-2 minutes? JJ?
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07-23-2011 , 04:15 PM
If ur not folding 22 don't see how he folds qq/kk especially that you both have the same tell on Billy. It's just such a -EV play in the most +EV tourney in the world for you. Not hating just think it's a terrible spew and obv u hit it is all
The well Quote
07-23-2011 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mement_mori
I_Blade_U on thought process

Great well aaaaaaa, thanks for sharing.
Thx bruh bruh
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07-23-2011 , 05:15 PM
sweer treath
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07-23-2011 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_BLADE_U
If ur not folding 22 don't see how he folds qq/kk especially that you both have the same tell on Billy. It's just such a -EV play in the most +EV tourney in the world for you. Not hating just think it's a terrible spew and obv u hit it is all
Pot odds are very different for him and he has a player behind .
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