If he's 3 betting you that much than just 4 bet and get it in.

What if his 3betting range is polarized?

Just ask ur self why you want to continue with JJ when you get 3bet, then ask ur self how is best to play JJ.

JJ is pretty tough to play oop in a 3bet pot. So, usually u just want to decide if you want to get it n preflop or if you should fold it. It's not the kind of hand you want to flat to trap in his air hands cause of the number of flops that are going to hit that you aren't going to like.

So, my standard would be to get it in pre with in this scenario vs described villain.

Maybe but it's .05/.10 so he probably is just drunk. Of course, even if it was 5/10 I'd 4 bet and get it in. Even vs a polarized range(if it's polarized then he'll probably flat AA/KK which is really good news for you in this hand) you fair well the times he calls so 4 betting and getting it in is definitely going to be a lot better than flatting and guessing on the flop. Also, regardless of whether he folds or calls, he'll most likely 3 bet you less knowing you have the ability to 4 bet.

Why is that? A polarized 3bet range means his hands are either really strong or really weak for the situation, right? Like {AA, KK, QQ, 76o, 86s} but not {JJ, TT, 99, AK} or whatever?

On topic: If the above is correct then this is a problem for 4betting JJ, every better hand has an easy 5betshove all worse has an easy fold. BTW to me this is a problem for JJ vs any non-maniacs 3bet. People just seldom stack off preflop without {AA,KK,QQ,AK} 4bet/folding is uuuugly and flatting is only fun if you like guessing.

Some of us are happy stacking off a bit lighter than that range!

... against the right opponent


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $22.70
BTN: $20.55
SB: $33.90
Hero (BB): $25.00
UTG: $7.95

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 6 5
1 fold, CO raises to $1.85, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.35, CO raises to $22.70 all in, Hero (after tanking to do a bit of maths) calls $17.35

Flop: ($45.65) T 2 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($45.65) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($45.65) J (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $45.65
CO shows A J (a pair of Jacks)
Hero shows 6 5 (high card Queen)
CO wins $43.65
(Rake: $2.00)

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): $10.20
BB: $10.00
UTG: $8.66
CO: $10.00
BTN: $22.35

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A J
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.55, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.45, BTN calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.75) 3 8 J (3 players)
Hero bets $1.15, UTG calls $1.15, BTN folds

Turn: ($4.05) Q (2 players)
Hero feels lost, but still bets $1.90 for whatever reason, UTG raises to $5, Hero folds


UTG is loose 40/14 over 40 hands or so, BTN just joined.

Could i have played it any worse? (besides calling the turn raise ofc)

PS: just realized that my flopbet seems to be too small

I know my opinion is totally valueless but I would have played it exactly the same way, and I think the flop bet size was fine.

I think you played it fine vs a 40/14. There is probably still a lot of value to be had from worse pairs, and his floats that have a diamond. Against a more solid player I'd just c/f the turn.

Well if he's really good enough to polarize a 3 bet on the button he's certainly going to polarize his calling range(if he even has one). My main point was no matter what his range, 4 bet get it in with JJ is fine. He needs to have a 3 bet range on the button less than 6(which is super unlikely given his current stats to even make it start being -EV. Even if he 3 bets 5.8% on the button and folds AK and calls QQ+ we are still slightly EV to shove pre.

Villain is essentially random, 27/9 over 13 hands.

Flop: Calling the raise is fine? Is a 3-bet ever in line here given (imo) donkish min-raise?
Turn: Are we ever ahead here?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $49.50
BTN: $48.25
SB: $48.15
Hero (BB): $57.75
UTG: $50.00
MP: $51.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with J A
4 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, SB calls $1

Flop: ($3.00) J 4 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB raises to $4, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($11.00) 3 (2 players)
SB bets $7.50, Hero?

i'm calling down unless a club hits, or he does something strange like shove river. bvb against a guy that complete/calls, TPTK is the nuts imo.

Understood. Thanks, nice explanation!

just curious, what was the math you took into account? youre a 40/60 underdog at very best and i dont think you have odds for that...but i could be wrong?

just call down, not raising at any point?

probably. It's a tough spot, cause you really don't know how he plays draws at this point. Maybe he's passive and calls draws, in which case raising would be bad. Maybe he doesn't call a turn 3bet with draws etc.

I just want to keep his range as wide as possible in this spot where I'm pretty unsure of his range.

Peru, don't ever do that again.

Sorry for the confusion: I thought it was an obvious misclick ... but just for the sake of doing the maths (that was my joke btw)

I have to call $17.35 into a $28.30 pot. To break even I need 17.35/(17.35+28.3) worth of equity or 38%. Does 65s have 38% chance of beating villain's 4bet shove range? Being generous and assuming a range of 77+,ATs,AJo, then pokerstove says we are 31.23% so it's an easy fold. If he's 4 betting AA,KK,QQ,AK the numbers are virtually the same. He needs to be 4 betting approximately:

55+,A2s+,K5s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,A7o+,A5o,K9o+,Q9o +,J9o+,T9o in order for my call to be profitable.

It was a misclick!!!!!!!

ldo

Ok, good. I've had like 10 of those this past week since I started using tableninja. Luckily, most have been min 3 bets when I've meant to fold pre.

Actually DD, the joke's on me since with his actual holding of AJo, the call was correct - lol @ the fundamental theory of poker!

Villain is 37/17 over 42 hands. Agg Factor of 3

I'm pretty sure folding isn't really an option here. But can I ever shove profitably here?
If I call, would the plan be to get to showdown cheaply unless I bink?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $50.00
SB: $43.50
Hero (BB): $65.85
UTG: $30.60
UTG+1: $50.00
MP1: $72.35
MP2: $50.95
CO: $50.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with K K
UTG raises to $1.50, 6 folds, Hero raises to $4, UTG calls $2.50

Flop: ($8.25) 3 T 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG raises to $12, Hero???

60BB deep vs an laggro I just get it in. Fold looks really nitty and call doesnt look as nice since you are not folding the turn anyway and are OOP so you give him the chance to take a free card if you callflop/checkturn, which is bad on a board this drawy.

Also; why the small 3bet? I 3bet to pot or more OOP.

Edit: you wont get to showdown cheaply vs a hand that beats you (all of those hands are just shipping the turn), maybe against a hand that has decent equity vs. you, but then you dont want to get to showdown cheaply, you want to make him pay. The only reason to call would be to induce. But you only have 60% of the pot behind, he cant think you are folding the turn much. Get it in.

3bet much bigger...37/17's aren't folding much preflop, get some money in there. As played, just shove the flop. If he's 100bb deep it's tougher, but only cause of your 3bet sizing.

Hand #1
Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $8.23
SB: $11.70
BB: $10.14
UTG: $10.00
Hero (MP): $13.01
CO: $11.72

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with A J
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) J A T (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.45, SB raises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.45

Turn: ($2.50) T (2 players)
SB bets $1.90, Hero calls $1.90

River: ($6.30) K (2 players)
SB bets $8.60 all in, Hero folds

_______________________________________

Hand #2
Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $18.92
BTN: $10.80
SB: $8.05
BB: $34.84
UTG: $10.00
Hero (MP): $23.14

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with A A
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.35, SB calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.15) 9 4 J (3 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.20, BTN calls $1.20, SB calls $1

Turn: ($4.75) 9 (3 players)
SB bets $2, Hero raises to $10.75


Both are rush hands and i had no stats on the players.

Looking at it now i should 3bet the flop in hand 1 i think, but seems like i've been running into the nuts a little too often lately -.-

HEM's hud works for rush...

Hand 1, you can 3bet get it in on the flop and he'll probably stack of with AT, JT. But calling is just fine too. On the turn I fold. You aren't beating any of his value hands any more. River is a fold.

Hand 2: Is tough, neither really should be able to have a 9 here unless they had J9. So, I guess raising is fine. I might just call though cause it looks like he's trying to fine out where he's at and might be looking to make a big fold with Jx.