i think fold PF.

That said, if we're going to continue with the hand, aren't we better off pushing PF?

no u

But yah, pre looks like a shove/fold, where I'm clearly leaning towards folding. Still, folding flop when OR is already out of the pot and you could have villain easily dominated (QJ/JT) and almost always have 6 outs is pretty lame imho.

I prefer the call because UTG+2 has us covered. Better to see the flop and evaluate from there.

Depends, is the original raiser in a lot of pots or just a few...
Have you been in alot of hands or very few(and are they paying attention?)
You can't give up on all of these above average holdings or you'll never get payed off on anything.

theres a totally different dynamic in this hand to a standard stop and go.... youre way behind here almost all the time

Maybe it's just me cause im a 3-bet monkey but why not reraise pre? Most of the UTG+1 and +2 raises here are easily a midpair, to KJs+ range... we have position and though he covers if you make it 1250 to 1500 here PF it would make it very difficult for the raiser to call unless he is willing to gamble.. Even if the BB pushing all in PF may give initial raiser pot odds and still may elect to call.. on a dry board like that he will most likely check if he called preflop and you can shove... then ur in for a race on the top pair that the BB called with... also did i read that ur still on the rebuy period when this hand came about? if so i'd be shoving here preflop and take advantage of the rebuy period...

I kinda share this opinion.

Because it is 3 handed?

Three betting is bad here I think. I don't want to play a huge pot with AJ obviously and if I do 3 bet w/o shoving I am committed.

3-handed and I guess cuz I don't think his pre-flop range for over-calling is any 2, and I don't think his flop shoving range is that entire range either, but I don't know. I basically am not sure whether it's a +EV or -EV call, so I usually just fold if I'm not sure rather than guess.

I'd 3-bet bluff in this type of spot more often than I would call. And I wouldn't 3-bet bluff here that often...

So what do you do when he reships on you? You pretty much have to call right? And w/o antes I hate bluffing here.

No, just make your bet-sizing appropriate. Like I really wouldn't do it that often with this exact stack, maybe >35BB I would be more inclined to, but calling seems like it would be thin to -EV a lot of times. What was your read?

like i said.. rebuy just ended... pretty much everyone played tight for rebuy... I mean shoving tt/AQ that kind of thing... nothing to wild.

Ok, without read here I think calling is def bad, even with position. If you were suited... maybe. Basically just due to the gap concept. You're probably aware of it, if you're not, look it up b/c somewhere will explain it much better than I can.

yah i know what the gap concept is... i don't know if you missed my post about hoh saying that when we get between 10-20 for m we need to loosen our calling and opening ranges and stop playing suited connectors and small pairs... is this still mostly accepted?

Ok, basically I would interpret him saying that as just making the gap smaller, just because reverse implied odds are less prominent as our stack goes down. So where we might've folded AQo to an MP raise earlier since we weren't that far ahead of the raiser's range, and we'd lose big pots more often than we would win big pots, now it's correct to call with anything that is even slightly ahead of the raiser's range. In this spot, many people won't even open AJ UTG+1, so it's rarely even in their opening range, let alone ahead of it.

Yes we are behind his range, but the odds are glorious!

ok this makes sense to me... he doesn't go into it that much, just talks lot about setmining. So now v a tight (or assuming he is tight) player we may want to adjust to something like AJ suited and AQ off

+1 to that as the villain only has to be bluffing with a non pair hand a small % of the time here to make a call correct due to the odds you are receiving.

i fold pre though but flop is a simple call. its not even remotely close.

we are putting in 930 to win 2355, it's 2.5:1, i believe the 28% figure is correct though.

why is everybody folding pre? care to share?

what about adding your 930 to the pot?

read the thread it is in there why people are folding pre.... that isn't how you calculate odds but the % is correct.

I agree with this too. Also I would have to imagine 1 if not 2 of your outs are gone as the orig R had to either have 2 high cards or low pair. I wouldn't think he's week against 2 other ppl. Imo.

yes but u have to include the many times when u r a big fav and they are drawing to either 3 or 6 outs.